Slow twist enfield

[varsity07840]

I think that there is notion among some shooters of Civil War muzzle loading rifled arms is that if you're not getting "good accuracy" with a "five seventy something" minie and the service load(or more) of powder(not always real black) then it's a round ball gun. They may not have an interest in the arm and the period it comes from as opposed to a desire for a big bore gun that's "easy to load and shoot". Rather than doing some homework, the common question is "what's the max load my gun can take?" They come to find out that there is more of an investment in time and money to get the best out of a quality repro or an original Civil War arm in good condition than with most rifles intended for patched balls. For those of us who are serious about shooting them, that's part of the fun. Now, I want to make it clear that I have no problem with someone who wants to shoot PRBs out of a '63 Springfield. Have at it. I do have a problem with pronouncing it inaccurate with the proper ammunition intended for it.

[dave951]

I think that there is notion among some shooters of Civil War muzzle loading rifled arms is that if you're not getting "good accuracy" with a "five seventy something" minie and the service load(or more) of powder(not always real black) then it's a round ball gun. They may not have an interest in the arm and the period it comes from as opposed to a desire for a big bore gun that's "easy to load and shoot". Rather than doing some homework, the common question is "what's the max load my gun can take?" They come to find out that there is more of an investment in time and money to get the best out of a quality repro or an original Civil War arm in good condition than with most rifles intended for patched balls. For those of us who are serious about shooting them, that's part of the fun. Now, I want to make it clear that I have no problem with someone who wants to shoot PRBs out of a '63 Springfield. Have at it. I do have a problem with pronouncing it inaccurate with the proper ammunition intended for it.

Yup. What he said^^^^

The Minie system is a much more sophisticated design than a patch round ball. It takes attention to details and supplies. Conventional wisdom does not apply regarding twist rates, sizing and alloy. Get it right and it's a wonderful thing. I'm with Varsity 100%.

[dave951]

Thats all fine and dandy but there is no getting away from the fact that if we come back to a 48" twist in these things (ala Two band Enfield) life gets a whole heck of a lot simpler for the average punter - he can then get decent results with a range of minie designs (including LEE) - most of the stuff that causes gnashing of teeth for a newby go away................

And missing entirely the part about the minie must be matched to the gun regardless of twist rate ie, the twist rate isn't that important, bullet selection is. Most Lee molds for minies are marginally made and cast right at .575 and that's ok if your rifle is .575-6. The best Lee minie design is now discontinued in .575 but again, Lee minie molds are marginal. The base plug is mounted on a thin plate that is easily warped or bent and that leads to improper base pin location resulting in galling in the main mold and rendering it useless in short order. Compare how a Lee minie mold is made to an RCBS, Moose or Rapine and it will become obvious. Poorly made molds that are easily damaged is a short path to frustration and if the caster is not informed about the potential bottom pin issues with Lee, he'll probably blame the bullet and gun and switch to round ball.

[varsity07840]

Thats all fine and dandy but there is no getting away from the fact that if we come back to a 48" twist in these things (ala Two band Enfield) life gets a whole heck of a lot simpler for the average punter - he can then get decent results with a range of minie designs (including LEE) - most of the stuff that causes gnashing of teeth for a newby go away................

So, basically your saying that if you want to shoot a Civil War rifled muzzleloader or maybe just a big bore rifle buy a two bander because it has a 1:48 twist that's easier to get "decent results" with it. Decent results for shooters is purely subjective. The 1:48 twist is good for your two bander, but if the shooter avoids the basics relative to shooting a minie the teeth gnashing will be there. Why do you think so many guys pronounce them as round ball guns? The answer is they don't know the gun. They only know what they want to shoot out of it. If that doesn't work with bagged store bought minies of questionable size in a bore that hasn't been properly measured, it's declared a *** suitable only for round balls. They don't think that they may have to buy a mould of proper size and all that goes with it in order to get it to shoot well. So, where's the difference in degree of difficulty between a 2 band 1:48 and a 3 band 1:72?

[carbine]

I have 3 two band Springfields rifled by Bobby Hoyt. None are 1:48. Two are 1:60. The other one is loaned out. Been shooting mine since 1986 with gilt edge accuracy.