Gremlins found my scales

[slim1836]

Well, I knew bashing of E scales was gonna come out sometime. I generally check my E scales against a balance beam scale on occasion and if all pans out use the E scales. I'm ok with that, each to their own. I caught my mistake and corrected it which was the reason for my OP.

I just find using the balance scales to be rather slow and tedious and I'm mostly a paper plinker. I'm not as knowledgeable on fine tuning a load as a lot of the members here, nor do I aspire to be. I just have fun casting and shooting. I just have to please myself with the results.

I applaud those who get MOA with cast boolits and if I'm in the kill zone at 100 yards I'm a happy camper.

Now I need to re-weigh my cast boolits from my last session, I bet they are off a tad.

Thanks for all the suggestions guys, it's appreciated.

Slim

[gwpercle]

You could always go Low- Tech .
My RCBS 5-0-5 beam scale never fails ... but who wants to use something so Low Tech as a beam scale ...
This is 2022 and that will never do ...long live the micro-chip ! Old school be Hanged !!!
Gary

[trails4u]

Slim, I don't want to hijack your thread, but would like to say kudos to everyone who's posted here. I made a pretty terrible, egregious mistake in a post I made, and was politely corrected, with no bashing, flaming, nor being called an idiot. (Which I may have deserved!). I can't imagine the flaming I would have taken on a few other sites, but not here... Thanks to you all for keeping it professional and useful!

[slim1836]

Slim, I don't want to hijack your thread, but would like to say kudos to everyone who's posted here. I made a pretty terrible, egregious mistake in a post I made, and was politely corrected, with no bashing, flaming, nor being called an idiot. (Which I may have deserved!). I can't imagine the flaming I would have taken on a few other sites, but not here... Thanks to you all for keeping it professional and useful!

AMEN, Same goes with me as I was the one wrong with calibrating my scales. It was a rookie mistake and I thought I was above that level after all these years. How embarrassing but brings one back to reality.

The members one here are next to none.

Slim

[BK7saum]

In reality if that is linear dispersion, you are looking at a 0.54 grain error on a 771.6 grain charge so any normal charge would be off less than 0.1 grains. I would consider that close enough for govt work.

However, i run a higher end electronic balance and while not calibrated routinely, i check the pan weight (117.9645 grains or something written on side when new) and also check weight of a known 50grain bullet. If both of those check out, i just go with it. If either are off, i will recalibrate. i am just verifying the scale is correct in the range I am using it.

If the OPs check weight has always been off, but consistent over time, then i wouldnt worry about it as long as consistent..

[1hole]

Well, I knew bashing of E scales was gonna come out sometime.

Slim, don't misunderstand me. I don't "bash" E scales, per se, because they do have some good points but I also recognise their weaknesses.

Think about this; no one makes a digital reloading scale that's worth repairing! When a Chinese scale craps out under warranty and gets returned to the "maker" who simply tosses it out and sends back a new one. Like Chinese bedside radios from Walmart, those scales are so cheaply made it would make no sense for them to maintain a scale repair/calibration shop with all of the needed test equipments and competent technicians to do the work.

I just find using the balance scales to be rather slow and tedious ....
Slim

Well, digitals do display some numbers immediately. But, every one I've tried requires 2-4 seconds to actually settle; every magnetic damped balance beam I've tried will settle just as quickly.

When trickling up critical charges, balances will immediately and smoothly track the powder but I'm yet to see a digital do that.

Placing a digital flat on the bench works well but setting a balance flat on the bench does not; that's much too low. I suggest you get/make a sturdy wooden box you can place on your bench as a miniature "workbench" to support your balance AND trickler closer to eye level so you can more easily see them; THAT will make them much easier/faster to use!

[Sam Sackett]

I’m with Gary. I’m still using an RCBS 502 from back in the 1970’s. It’s never let me down and locks into center within seconds. Pointer follows me up smoothly when I’m trickling. When done with a reloading session, it goes right back into its original box. It just sits there on the shelf waiting until I need it again. Never saw a need to go to something that needed batteries.

Sam Sackett

[slim1836]

1hole,

My use of the word 'bashing' was probably too harsh for the application in which it was used. My intentions were not trying to incite and were meant to be reflected in good taste only. Probably should have put that in purple font.

I've gotten too used to the E scales and only have the Lee introductory beam scale and a R.F. Wells beam scale. I should make more use of them.

Slim

[dale2242]

I started a thread asking about E scales.
At least 50% of the replies were telling me to use my balance beam scales.
These type of answers were of no use to me what so ever.
Some feel the need to add their opinion even though it doesn't add anything of value to the thread.

[Land Owner]

^^^ that's called "Thread Drift" and it happens to nearly every thread ^^^

I keep my e-scale plugged in. It has been on, and off only a few times, over a decade+ of use. It is a robust PACT and reads "fine", to within 0.2 gr. of both an RCBS (Ohas) 5-0-5 and 10-10 beams. I keep a set of GRAM check weights (available in GRAINS) for comparing these three from time to time. I have seen no drift or error producing result.



Like Slim, if I'm MOA (or less), and in the kill zone at 200 yards, I am good to go. It is a given that reloading for hunting is far more forgiving than competitive shooting. Consistency is King.

A scale that is routinely and regularly "off" by 0.5 grains (say) that throws charges which put the bullet on target, is a reliable scale in my book. I also am not trying to shave the whiskers on a gnat at 100 yards...ymmv.

[Rapier]

Electronics are great until they are not so great. I spend the time, to save time. I use a triple beam Ohaus. Turn the ceiling fans off. I no not use electronic scales or powder dispensers.
I am a surveyor, chief surveyor, everything in my world is electronic, I do not trust electronics one mill or if you wish .001 grains. Verify, verify, verify. Very hard to break a new person from wanting to just trust.
Glad you caught the errors.

[Land Owner]

^^^ As professionals/perfectionists - CE, PE (ret.) here - we make it tough on ourselves in a hobby pursuit ^^^

I make hunting rounds one-at-a-time, powder measuring each on a BEAM SCALE. I use the E-scale for "gross measurements" such as separating cases by weight, determining how many as-cast boolits are in a pound of alloy, checking "quality" and segregating as-cast boolits by weight (which does vary over time), and "other" quick turnaround weighings of a non-critical nature. The E-scale is SO FAST for some things. Critical work is done the SLOW WAY.

[1hole]

1hole,

My use of the word 'bashing' was probably too harsh for the application in which it was used.

No sweat, it was harmless. No harm = no foul.

I've gotten too used to the E scales and only have the Lee introductory beam scale and a R.F. Wells beam scale. I should make more use of them.

Slim

Lee's little Safety Scale is actually as good as any so far as sensitivity and accuracy goes ... and it's very light. In fact, it's so light and touchy that many of us find it a real PITA to use and noobs sure don't need that. (I think it's best use is for checking the accuracy of other scales!)

Wells once made quite good reloading beam scales EXCEPT (as I well as I can remember) they had no magnetic damping. I'd rather use a digital than a beam scale without mag damping because they are slowwww to settle! (And, IMHO, messy old oil damped beam scales just plain suck.)

One of the rarely mentioned problems with sensitive little electronic scales is their sensitivity to power line changes in both the voltage AND sine wave distortion. Thankfully, power quality is rarely a serious problem in private homes so IF your home's electrical input is clean and stable, your touchy little powder scale will usually be pretty stable too. But, that's a big IF because the quality of your incoming power can change considerably by the hour - or minute!

[ReloaderFred]

I started a thread asking about E scales.
At least 50% of the replies were telling me to use my balance beam scales.
These type of answers were of no use to me what so ever.
Some feel the need to add their opinion even though it doesn't add anything of value to the thread.

You have my sympathy, dale2242. I've never understood why total strangers, using an alias, would have the effrontery to tell me what to use in MY shop. Over the past 59 years of reloading, and over 35 different calibers, I've pretty much determined what works for me in MY shop. I would never have the temerity to tell someone else what they should practice in THEIR shop. I may suggest another method, but I would never tell anyone they had to do something my way, or use [U]the[U] piece of equipment that I use.

I guess you could call that a rant, but it's more of an irritation to me associated with the use of the internet. Back when I started this obsession with reloading in 1963, there was no internet (thankfully, in some cases). I learned from books, shooting magazines, experience, curiosity and there was a shop near me that specialized in reloading, and you could rent a spot at one of his reloading benches by the hour, if you wished. You could also take in your empty coffee can and buy powder from him by the pound, half pound, or whatever you could afford. The owner was a fountain of knowledge when it came to reloading, but his best asset was that he would explain the whys and wherefores of what he'd found that worked for him.

These days everyone with a keyboard can be an "expert". Some really are, but some really aren't. The quagmire we find ourselves in with the internet is determining who the experts really are, but keeping in mind that even the experts can make mistakes....

Hope this helps.

Fred

PS: This post really is a thread drift, so I apologize to those who may be offended.

[BC17A]

For peace of mind I verify the charge I'm going to use with known weights. I made a set by cutting small sections from brass, then sanding each one a little at a time until they reached the desired weight using a beam scale. Now, at the beginning of each load session, I cal my digital scale then verify the charge I'm going to use, or as close as I can get with the weights I made. Typically they read right on or within 2 hundredths on my E-scale. When I handload individual rounds I'll also verify again periodically.

[Jaaymar]

For speed & accuracy in mass measurement what if:
We used a 0.1 grain or better balance.
Made or purchased check weights:
(4) 0.1 grain, (2) 0.2 grain, (1) 0.5 grain, (4) 1.0 grain, (2) 20.0 grain, (1) 5.0 grain, (4) 10.0 grain, (1) 50.0 grain, etc.
Two powder pans modified to be identical in mass.
Place the exact grain in check weights we are trying to measure in one pan on one side of the balance.
Place the other pan on the other side…

Then grab our set of lee scoops and have at measuring our charges

[slim1836]

One of the possible issues that I had thought of was the recent wiring I did when I ran underground electricity to the shed, previous power was supplied by an extension cord ran on the ground. I know nada about electricity but had help from one who did. I did use 10 gauge wire in case I needed 220 but doubt I'll ever use it out here.

Secondly, my ignorance in checking properly led me to the belief that the weights showing to be off. Sometimes you just have to sit back and ask, "what is going on here". Once I found the errors of my ways everything fell in place, of course that was after posting here and sleeping on it. It all ended well.

That said, I've gotten the beam scales out and am going to play with them again. They were all I had starting out and perhaps I need to get used to them again. They will be a part of my reloading again. Time will tell how much but I'm going to work on it.

Slim

[dverna]

Like another poster suggested, I keep it simple. I put a .224 bullet on the scale, if the scale gives me a reading within .1 gr it is close enough.

I have three beam scales and one electric scale. I hardly use them. The bulk of what I shoot is loaded on progressives and I check powder drops with every new primer tube or two. Nothing I shoot is affected by a .2 variation in powder charge. But we all have different needs.

[uscra112]

I bash electronic scales because....well.....they're so gosh-darned bashable! Extremely temperature sensitive, affected by florescent lights and cellphones, sunspots, tides, you name it.

[59sharps]

I was actually able to get parts from Pact. they wouldn't do the work but would send them.