My homemade black powder

[HamGunner]

Percussion caps:
Although hard to find locally, I think I could likely scrounge around the smaller gun shops and component suppliers and find a few caps. They have been vacant for a long time at the larger gun shops and supply vendors such as Academy, Bass Pro/Cabelas, Wal-Mart, etc.

I decided several years ago, when caps became difficult to find and the prices were climbing higher if they could be found, to make my own and I bought a tool to make the cups. It took me a while with trial and error to figure out just how to make the components and chemicals and how to pack them into the percussion cups so that they were sufficiently reliable. I now have it about perfected to my satisfaction.

The last time I was out shooting, last week I think, I reloaded my revolver at least a dozen times and never had a single misfire. No noticeable delay in ignition and with the percussion cap staying on the nipple and not hanging up the action.

I stopped making the primer cups out of two layers of .004 thickness soda can and instead I now use one layer of flashing metal that is .008 thick. They seem to fit the nipples better on both my #10 and #11 nipples and are less apt to hang up the action from the blow back.

Edit: My formula for priming mixture is basically the old FH-42 mixture: (I only mix up enough to do about 100 percussion caps at a time and I crush the ingredients up separately prior to mixing). I mix by placing in a small plastic medicine dispensing cup that has a rubber cap and gently shaking. Aggressive stirring will likely not end well.

By weight:
Potassium Chlorate 45%
Antimony Trisulfide 30%
Sulfur Powder 20%
Gelatin Powder 4%
Aluminum Dust 0.5%
Black Powder fines 0.5%

I soldered a large pistol primer cup to a small length of solid copper wire for a primer mixture measure and I use one level large pistol primer cup full for each percussion cup. A small primer cup full might be enough, but I have not had trouble with the percussion caps blowing back too much. I use paint stirring sticks with holes drilled at the proper size to snugly hold the percussion cups, about 25 to each paint stirring stick. Using a very small funnel I drop the priming mixture into the home made percussion cups. After all are full on that paint stick, I use the blunt end of the proper sized rod (small chainsaw file works for me) to slowly compress the priming powder down into the percussion cup. (I read this trick using the paint stirring sticks here on another forum and it really helps) Do the whole procedure over paper to capture any spilled or excess primer mixture. After all percussion cups are compressed I drop one drop of (5 to 1) alcohol/shellac into each percussion cup. After just a few minutes of drying I press one toy cap gun cap, that I cut out with a hand held paper puncher, into each percussion cup and let dry. I use LEGEND brand toy cap gun caps that are made in Germany versus the cheaper made Chinese toy cap gun caps, but others are just using a piece of paper with good results. I prefer to use the toy cap gun cap paper just for insurance in good ignition.

My percussion caps have been working at almost 100%, grip the nipple tightly, and ignite my powder instantly.

[HamGunner]

This test burn was using freshly milled green meal Black Willow/Sassafras BP using the normal 75/15/10 recipe. (I just used my left over charcoal of the two and together had enough for a batch of BP).I milled the fine powder ingredients (no larger than #40 mesh) for six hours in my 15 Lb. hexagon shaped mill barrel at 40 rpm and pulling the barrel off about ever hour or so and shaking the mixture up a bit and placing back on the mill. No burn through spots so it was milled decently enough and it was also fast and not leaving a lot of indications of ash I think. I have tested after more mill time using my mill set up with little difference noted. Both my Black Willow and the Sassafras charcoal had less than 3% ash when I had tested them.

My burn tests with the same powder after compressing into pucks and busting up, grinding, and screening shows even better and faster burn of course with less dark spots left on the paper. I have been happy with my Black Willow and Sassafras charcoal BP so I plan on making that my woods of choice. Both are readily available to me locally, especially the Sassafras. It grows in almost every fence row in this part of Missouri.

[almar]

Watched the you tube video by mannyca, about using small pistol primers instead of non existent caps. Has anyone tried this? He showed it wont work in some reproduction revolvers tho because of the clearance issue, but should work with a Remington clone.

Uses cut pieces of vinyl tubing 1/4” od short and puts primer on top and hammer sets it off very well, and you can use many times. This would be good because I have plenty of small pistol and small rifle primers. And cant find any caps locally.

oh man dont waste primers are you kidding? Go to 22reloader.com and get primall and the cap maker. it a heckofalot cheaper and easy to make.

https://22lrreloader.com/

[DoubleBuck]

HamGunner;
That looks really good! Especially for green meal. I use Sassafras too, and would be interested to know your results, of it versus your Black Willow, as far as speed and cleanliness, etc. Great job!

[HamGunner]

HamGunner;
That looks really good! Especially for green meal. I use Sassafras too, and would be interested to know your results, of it versus your Black Willow, as far as speed and cleanliness, etc. Great job!

I already compared them pretty much and actually there was little difference in ash levels or burn speed either for that matter. Both have given me similar velocities and I could not pick out one that was better than the other. The charcoal from the Black Willow might have just a bit more brown cast to it than the Sassafras, but the Sassafras also comes out of my charring process with a slight brownish cast. I give them about equal qualities from my testing.

[maillemaker]

Hamgunner:

I would like to see a thread here dedicated to cap making just as we have here for BP making.

Steve

[HamGunner]

There is this thread: https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...g-on-revolvers
And this one: https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...ercussion-caps
And YouTube:https://duckduckgo.com/?q=how+to+mak...deos&ia=videos

[DoubleBuck]

I already compared them pretty much and actually there was little difference in ash levels or burn speed either for that matter. Both have given me similar velocities and I could not pick out one that was better than the other. The charcoal from the Black Willow might have just a bit more brown cast to it than the Sassafras, but the Sassafras also comes out of my charring process with a slight brownish cast. I give them about equal qualities from my testing.

Thank you, that was about exactly my thoughts, as well.

[jmh54738]

Regarding your questions about puck die diameter. The psi needed to properly compress black powder is between 2700 and 3500 psi. The larger the diameter of your die, the more pressure is required from your hydraulics to achieve that overall pressure. Most here have found they needed to use a 12 ton or better jack to achieve proper compression. This is because many of us are using a 2-1/2" die. The fact that you are getting good compression with only an 8 ton jack is related to the fact that you are using a smaller 1-3/4" die. I thought I would dash this note off to you, hoping you happen to read it before you go to the trouble of making a larger diameter die, which may not work with your smallish 8 ton jack.

It will be interesting to hear how your grapevine and Aspen work out.

Good luck,
Vettepilot[/QUOTE]

Following the replies from this group, I have made a 2 3/8" diameter puck mold and have reduced the puck thickness to 5/16".
Now, Vettepilot, comes the somewhat confusing hydraulic pressure. The gauge on my 45 ton 2 stage press is graduated in "tons on a 3 1/2" cylinder. A 3/12" cylinder is 9.6 sq in., divided into 2000 lb/ton = 208 psi for each "ton" gauge graduation. My new puck mold is 4.4 sq in, which divided into 9.6 sq in = 2.18. Thus, each 1 ton gauge graduation of 208 psi is multiplied by a factor of 2.18, which equals 453psi. 2700psi divided by 453 = 5.9 ton gauge pressure, and 3500 psi = 7.7 ton gauge pressure. OK, now does all of this math look logical ?
Aspen BP is in the drier and Cedar BP is milling, while the grape wood BP is waiting in the wings. By the time I am ready for testing, the temperature hopefully be above the 5 degrees F of this morning.

[Vettepilot]

Well, that sounds right, I think. (Not sure about that "ram rating" language.)

At any rate, what you'll need to do in any case, to achieve and verify your density, is monitor the volume. You will need to compress weight "X" into volume "Y" to achieve your desired density. Commercial is 1.72 g/cc. So, literally, if you take 1.72 grams of powder, and compress it into a volume/space of 1 cubic centimeter, you have achieved that density.

Vettepilot

[jmh54738]

Is that 1.72 grams per cc in the granulated state or in solid puck density. My 1/2 pound of ingredients, 227 grams, is compressed into 156cc of pucks, giving a density of 1.45g/cc. That was achieved with 8 ton, 3627psi, on my pressure gauge. I should probably lessen the pressure to 5.9 ton, 2700psi. What do you think ?
I like math

[DoubleBuck]

jmh54738;
Density is measured in the puck, dry. Commercial seems to be predominantly 1.7 or thereabouts. At less than 1.5 density, powder grain strength begins to weaken (not grain burn strength, but density strength. The less density, the faster the powder, but the weaker the grain strength, generally speaking. And, above 1.55 density, the greater the density, the slower the powder's burn rate and the harder the grain strength. Either light or heavy density, burn rate can also be manipulated with grain size. The larger the size, the slower the burn rate, again, generally speaking. You might want to check your grain strength and see if it is acceptable to you and decide on your preferred density, for your particular weapon.
I hope you don't mind me answering your question. I think VettePilot will agree. And if not tell him I said his mother wears army boots. haha

[Vettepilot]

That is the compressed puck density. We are finding the literal pressure to get there varies. The variabilty might be partially due to charcoal differences, both in type, and how it is cooked. Overall powder moisture content definitely contributes to variations in required pressure.

Vettepilot

[Vettepilot]

She did not!!

;~)

I totally agree DoubleBuck. This time...

;~)

Vettepilot

[DoubleBuck]

Vettepilot;
You know what we need to do? We all need to build a list of all the variables you need to cover, to make the Holy Black. Like moisture; grain size; density; mill rates and sizes; cook times and temps, etc, etc, etc. Hell, we could write a book, just covering variables.
"The Book of Black Powder Variables" by Us and Them.

[jmh54738]

Thanks, fellows... just trying to benefit from your experience. No sense plowing the same field twice. I did use the dry weight of the ingredients, not the damp weight of the pucks. There is likely some frictional loss in the hydraulic system also, seals, 0 rings, etc.. Too early to experiment with puck compression, as I already have three charcoal batches in the works, 1/2 pound each. Grain roller mill...Hmmmm

[Vettepilot]

You're welcome! Keep at it and good luck. We look forward to your posts and results.

Yes, Buck, something like that would be cool. I brought the idea of a compilation up some time ago, saying that we all would help/contribute, but nobody "bit", and I just flat don't have the time myself.

This thread is truly the most detailed and complete posting of DIY black powder info anywhere! I know, as I've been researching this stuff for years. But it IS very difficult to search the thread and put it all together unless you're a fanatic like myself, and/or have read and followed this huge thread all along. Sometimes I will want to refer back to something I know we covered here, yet have a terrible time finding it. (And sometimes don't find it!)

Vettepilot

[Vettepilot]

Thanks, fellows... just trying to benefit from your experience. No sense plowing the same field twice. I did use the dry weight of the ingredients, not the damp weight of the pucks. There is likely some frictional loss in the hydraulic system also, seals, 0 rings, etc.. Too early to experiment with puck compression, as I already have three charcoal batches in the works, 1/2 pound each. Grain roller mill...Hmmmm

Yeah. How much moisture is in the meal will change how much pressure it might take to reach a given density. You also want to watch that you don't use too much moisture, as that can leach out the KN03. Those doing this in humid climes often don't add any moisture at all.

The point being; due to the variables, we've found that you unfortunately can't just have a single "go to" pressure psi. Instead, you have to use the "volume calculated method" for each batch.

Edit to add: If you're not too picky, you could just press to say 3500 psi and call it "good enough". Many people do just that, or even less detail, and do just fine. In fact, many don't even use pressed powder. They just granulate. They find they need to use a bit more powder to hit the same power level as commercial, but in muzzle loaders that's no big deal. BP cartridge loading really needs pressed powder though, due to limited space in the cartridge case.

Vettepilot

[Vettepilot]

Lastly here today, let me clarify that 2700 to 3500 psi number. My understanding is that in this pressure range, the sulphur plasticizes and this is what helps "glue" the powder together. This, from what I've read, is the pressure range Goex uses.

Again though, the actual density achieved with a given psi, will vary according to several other variables such as the charcoal, moisture content, etc. That's why in order to be assured of a given density, (if that's important to you), you must go by weight and volume.

I'm done!

Vettepilot

[Vettepilot]

ACME BLACK POWDER INSTRUCTIONS

INGREDIENTS:

1. Pure potassium nitrate milled very fine. - 75%
2. Pure sulphur milled very fine. - 10%
3. Charcoal milled very fine. - 15%

A. Black Willow
B. Sassafras
C. Red Cedar
D. Grape Vine
E. Others

Cook wood until charred. Beat, pound, grind, mill until fine powder.

Mix ingredients and ball mill for more than 3 hours but less than 2 days.

Do flash test. FUN! (Do away from other powder(s) for best outcome.)

Compress powder. (More than jumping up and down on it required.)

Beat, pound, grind, mill until required grains is made.

Screen grade.

Package and go shoot.

Patents pending.



Vettepilot