.25-20 win

[cwtebay]

Y'know, about six months ago I bought a Stevens 44 listed as .25-20 through Gunbroker. Expecting it to be the normal Stevens version, for which I have plenty of brass. Lo and behold, it turned out to have been relined and chambered for the WCF round, and unfired since. Nice, since I paid a pittance for it.

A few weeks later I went looking to see if I had ANY of the WCF brass, and to my surprise found two bags of 100 Winchester squirreled away. Never have I blessed my "hoarder" genes so enthusiastically. I'm sure I bought it off a gunshow table 10-15 years ago because it was a.) there and b.) cheap.

I absolutely love those finds!!!!

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[uscra112]

Gun writers have been writing obituaries for the .25-20 for at least 40 years, but it's still with us.

[cwtebay]

I have thought about this quite a bit, wouldn't you think a company such as Henry or Cinnamon or Uberti would make bank on a run of the original offerings in the 1892 Winchester? With the popularity of CASS and American and European interest in Old West type one would conclude that the masses could drive a market for that offering.
Can you imagine? A new '92 in 25/32/38/44 WCF? If it didn't sell for a significant profit I would be shocked!

AND if somehow Winchester could do it, and produce the brass and ammunition....well one can dream!!!!

[square butte]

Yes - And I think Ruger would find a pretty good market for a run of 77/25-20 and 77/32-20's with a rotary magazine.

[LtFrankDrebbin]

Great calibre for rabbit control

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09K0riac36s&t=28s

[uscra112]

Yes - And I think Ruger would find a pretty good market for a run of 77/25-20 and 77/32-20's with a rotary magazine.

The most sought-after barrel for the old Savage 219 is the .25-20 WCF. So how about a .25-20 barrel option for the modern break-open single shot? Henry? You listening?

[charlie44gs]

Although I don't shoot 25-20 in a lever gun I do reload 25-20 for my Marlin 27s. Within the last few years I have purchased 3 boxes of either Remington or Winchester ammo in 25-20. I have reloaded some of them three or four times using Lee dies.
I found this thread on another site that contains lot of info on reloading 25-20.
https://www.marlinowners.com/threads...loaders.26002/

[Eddie Southgate]

Actually, Starline has made runs of both.
They were made for a variety of wholesalers but retain the signature Starline headstamp.
Starline will make anything you want - I believe minimum order is 50,000 - 100,000 pieces depending on case dimensions.

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But they won't catalog them and sell to the general public in any reasonably quantity . Makes 0 sense . At what folks charge for any of the factory or custom ammo I could not afford to shoot it if I wanted too . I can't buy 50,000 rounds of brass at one time so I would be out there also . Your information is interesting and appreciated but in this particular case it is also useless .

I have been faithfully watching all of the legitimate sites that I am aware of for the last two years and so far have only known of one batch of Winchester brass that hit the market . I read a post where a fellow had just placed an order with a retailer who had a good supply of just released brass . I immediately called said retailer and was told they had sold out in the first couple of hours after listing the brass. Most of that run of brass I am sure sold on GB by folks that bought large quantities for the purpose of jacking the price up several times . That's the American way but it sucks .

[Eddie Southgate]

Starline does make 25/20 brass.

They make it for a company called “Load X”.

What I should have said is that they will “only” make it for Load X as they (Load X) paid for the tooling and that’s the agreement they (Load X and Starline) have.





Load X used to sell some of their “surplus” 25/20 brass and back in 2015 I picked up 500 of their cases for $350.00 (70 cents apiece).

I called Load X last week to see if they would want to sell any and they guy just laughed and said no way.

That’s when he shared with me the info about Load X paying for Starlines tooling.

I asked why they didn’t commission a run to sell to the public as he would sell all he could make and he said they weren’t in the business of selling components.

They sell custom ammunition.

ETA:

The guy at Load X shared with me that I would be surprised at the number of obsolete brass cartridge cases Starline makes that aren’t in their catalog.

He shared that there are others in the custom ammo business that have the same deal, customer pays for the tooling and they become the sole customer/distributor.

That is handy info if they actually have ammo to go with their catalog . Their bulk price on the .218 Bee and 25-20 are both doable If I can't find a source of new brass. I have enough .218 at the moment but only have 100 rounds of 25-20 . Thanks . I downloaded the catalog and will check with them as soon as I get a nice chunk of play cash .

[Eddie Southgate]

Although I don't shoot 25-20 in a lever gun I do reload 25-20 for my Marlin 27s. Within the last few years I have purchased 3 boxes of either Remington or Winchester ammo in 25-20. I have reloaded some of them three or four times using Lee dies.
I found this thread on another site that contains lot of info on reloading 25-20.
https://www.marlinowners.com/threads...loaders.26002/

I have wanted one of the model 27's every since I saw the first one when I was a kid about 50 years ago . I will have one before I die .

[Three44s]

The most sought-after barrel for the old Savage 219 is the .25-20 WCF. So how about a .25-20 barrel option for the modern break-open single shot? Henry? You listening?

I gave up trying to find a reasonably priced lever, pump or bolt gun in 25-20 Win and jumped at a new carbine barrel for a Contender from Edstc.

They are (I believe a 10 twist) and it’s a real hoot! As a single shot I can run any bullet shape. My first good load was the Hornady 75 gr vmax and its snake eyes. I have not gotten over to cast yet but intend to.

The best powder thus far is Lil’Gun in my rifle.

Three44s

[uscra112]

Although I don't shoot 25-20 in a lever gun I do reload 25-20 for my Marlin 27s. Within the last few years I have purchased 3 boxes of either Remington or Winchester ammo in 25-20. I have reloaded some of them three or four times using Lee dies.
I found this thread on another site that contains lot of info on reloading 25-20.
https://www.marlinowners.com/threads...loaders.26002/

That's about the last word on loading the WCF .25-20.

But a caution: Some of those fast loads are pushing 28,000 psi - unsafe for weaker rifles.

An unwise practice since WW2 has been to rechamber the popular .25-20 Stevens Model 44s to WCF, citing unavailability of Stevens ammo or brass. 28kpsi is more than double what the 44 will stand without "shooting loose" in a hurry.

I'm glad I took possession of that relined 44 I mentioned earlier, before Bubba tore it up.

[hoodat]

Too few of us appreciate the "kinder, gentler" cartridges such as the ones based on that case. Marketing these days seems to cater to the zippy, max velocity cartridges. I guess I don't have much faith that any big company is gonna create and promote guns for the old sweet-heart cartridges that many of us love. Also, it it doesn't function well in an AR, no one under forty is going to want it.

Maybe that's fine, and old codgers like me can find or build rifles for them, and keep it as our little secret. My -20 cartridge is The Bee, and it will forever be one of my favorite rifles. When it's time for me to quit shooting, I'm not going to focus on selling it, but more to bless someone who will appreciate it the way I have. jd

[uscra112]

That last part is hard. Out of five grandchildren, only one has any interest in shooting, and all he wants to shoot is his Glocks. *sigh* Raised an urbanite, and an urbanite he will ever be.

[hoodat]

It would be my guess that old buddy-duddies like us have been lamenting these same emotions for thousands of years.

"I can't believe my crazy grandson, Ragnar. That crazy kid traded the old family broad ax for one of those sissy little battle hatchets. How's he gonna lop heads with one of those toys??" jd

[cwtebay]

But they won't catalog them and sell to the general public in any reasonably quantity . Makes 0 sense . At what folks charge for any of the factory or custom ammo I could not afford to shoot it if I wanted too . I can't buy 50,000 rounds of brass at one time so I would be out there also . Your information is interesting and appreciated but in this particular case it is also useless .

I have been faithfully watching all of the legitimate sites that I am aware of for the last two years and so far have only known of one batch of Winchester brass that hit the market . I read a post where a fellow had just placed an order with a retailer who had a good supply of just released brass . I immediately called said retailer and was told they had sold out in the first couple of hours after listing the brass. Most of that run of brass I am sure sold on GB by folks that bought large quantities for the purpose of jacking the price up several times . That's the American way but it sucks .

Apologies for the useless information!

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[35remington]

The only way I might consider a 25-20 for deer would be if an 86 was loaded to the 1900 fps vicinity. Nebraska requires 900 ft lbs at 100 yards and the 25-20 won’t do that at the muzzle.

Recently I was pleased to obtain an 1894CL in immaculate shape. The original owner loaded 900 rounds of WW 680 and the 75 Speer. The load in 30 odd year old cases would group into about three inch at fifty yards, essentially useless except maybe on close range raccoons. That is a trick as it is normally difficult to get the 75 Speer to group poorly. Too bad it is discontinued.

In the stash I had a number of nickeled cases. Those cases that survived firing got annealed as a fair percentage split on being fired.

I was greatly relieved when a thrown together but proven load of SR 4759, Dacron, and a couple of NOE plainbase designs went just under an inch on the initial trials at the same range. This runs about 1380 fps.

Great cartridge that kills well on the critters it is suited for with coyotes being the reasonable upper limit…or something not more than 60-80 lbs anyway, so you could throw such as the bigger water loving furbearers in as well.

I usually load it to three power levels, with most of the shooting being an 85-90 grain flatnose plainbase at 1100 fps or the same at 1350-1400. The 1400 odd fps loads get Dacron and this seems to reduce or eliminate gas cutting and produces a consistent bore condition that I rarely bother to clean.

[rockrat]

Too bad we couldn't get enough people here to get starline to run a batch of 218 Bee, so we could have Bee brass and reform it to 25-20 too. Mine is the first centerfire rifle I had. A 24" octagonal/full mag. with a sewer pipe of a barrel. Sent it off to VM Starr to be re-lined. Shoots very well. Still have some 60gr HP WW bullets for it (NO, they aren't for sale!!). Great Jack Rabbit gun.

[ATCDoktor]

I’ve taken a fair amount of small game with the 25/20 using handloads that ranged from subsonic 55 grain hollow points to 86 grain JSP’s at near 2000 fps and it’s one of my favorite cartridges for that kind of work.

Whilst not a levergun, this Savage Sporter circa 1920 with vintage 3/4 inch weaver 2.75X scope has proven itself quite the game getter.

All these were taken with subsonic 55 grain hollow points.


86 grain JSP’s at 1900 hit them very hard and open up fairly quick and do a lot more damage than the old Speer 75 grain flat points.




75 grain Speers are not nearly as destructive as the 86 grainers at 1900 fps.





90 grain flat point subsonics are quite effective as well.



The 25/20 is a neat old cartridge and it’s a shame that components are not as readily available as we’d like them to be.

[uscra112]

Thinking back almost 20 years, when I was living on a small farm in Michigan, my Stevens 44-1/2 chambered .25-20 SS took care of reducing the groundhog population on the place. Killed maybe a dozen over 3-4 years, without even leaving the dooryard. But I stopped using it because the bullets I was using would ricochet, and the area being almost billiard-table flat, a glance might go a long way. Which points up a downside to the .25-20 - there are no bullets that will reliably go to pieces at 2000 fps or less. I'm in Ohio coulee country now, but I still use a .223 bolter with light, thin-skinned Hornet bullets for 'hogs in the garden. I only kill paper with the .25-20s.