Gun writers have been writing obituaries for the .25-20 for at least 40 years, but it's still with us.
Cognitive Dissident
I have thought about this quite a bit, wouldn't you think a company such as Henry or Cinnamon or Uberti would make bank on a run of the original offerings in the 1892 Winchester? With the popularity of CASS and American and European interest in Old West type one would conclude that the masses could drive a market for that offering.
Can you imagine? A new '92 in 25/32/38/44 WCF? If it didn't sell for a significant profit I would be shocked!
AND if somehow Winchester could do it, and produce the brass and ammunition....well one can dream!!!!
Last edited by cwtebay; 02-05-2022 at 05:45 PM.
Yes - And I think Ruger would find a pretty good market for a run of 77/25-20 and 77/32-20's with a rotary magazine.
Being human is not for sissies.
Great calibre for rabbit control
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09K0riac36s&t=28s
Although I don't shoot 25-20 in a lever gun I do reload 25-20 for my Marlin 27s. Within the last few years I have purchased 3 boxes of either Remington or Winchester ammo in 25-20. I have reloaded some of them three or four times using Lee dies.
I found this thread on another site that contains lot of info on reloading 25-20.
https://www.marlinowners.com/threads...loaders.26002/
But they won't catalog them and sell to the general public in any reasonably quantity . Makes 0 sense . At what folks charge for any of the factory or custom ammo I could not afford to shoot it if I wanted too . I can't buy 50,000 rounds of brass at one time so I would be out there also . Your information is interesting and appreciated but in this particular case it is also useless .
I have been faithfully watching all of the legitimate sites that I am aware of for the last two years and so far have only known of one batch of Winchester brass that hit the market . I read a post where a fellow had just placed an order with a retailer who had a good supply of just released brass . I immediately called said retailer and was told they had sold out in the first couple of hours after listing the brass. Most of that run of brass I am sure sold on GB by folks that bought large quantities for the purpose of jacking the price up several times . That's the American way but it sucks .
Grumpy Old Man With A Gun....... Do Not Touch !!
That is handy info if they actually have ammo to go with their catalog . Their bulk price on the .218 Bee and 25-20 are both doable If I can't find a source of new brass. I have enough .218 at the moment but only have 100 rounds of 25-20 . Thanks . I downloaded the catalog and will check with them as soon as I get a nice chunk of play cash .
Grumpy Old Man With A Gun....... Do Not Touch !!
I gave up trying to find a reasonably priced lever, pump or bolt gun in 25-20 Win and jumped at a new carbine barrel for a Contender from Edstc.
They are (I believe a 10 twist) and it’s a real hoot! As a single shot I can run any bullet shape. My first good load was the Hornady 75 gr vmax and its snake eyes. I have not gotten over to cast yet but intend to.
The best powder thus far is Lil’Gun in my rifle.
Three44s
Quote Originally Posted by Bret4207
“There is more to this than dumping lead in a hole.”
That's about the last word on loading the WCF .25-20.
But a caution: Some of those fast loads are pushing 28,000 psi - unsafe for weaker rifles.
An unwise practice since WW2 has been to rechamber the popular .25-20 Stevens Model 44s to WCF, citing unavailability of Stevens ammo or brass. 28kpsi is more than double what the 44 will stand without "shooting loose" in a hurry.
I'm glad I took possession of that relined 44 I mentioned earlier, before Bubba tore it up.
Last edited by uscra112; 02-06-2022 at 06:02 PM.
Cognitive Dissident
Too few of us appreciate the "kinder, gentler" cartridges such as the ones based on that case. Marketing these days seems to cater to the zippy, max velocity cartridges. I guess I don't have much faith that any big company is gonna create and promote guns for the old sweet-heart cartridges that many of us love. Also, it it doesn't function well in an AR, no one under forty is going to want it.
Maybe that's fine, and old codgers like me can find or build rifles for them, and keep it as our little secret. My -20 cartridge is The Bee, and it will forever be one of my favorite rifles. When it's time for me to quit shooting, I'm not going to focus on selling it, but more to bless someone who will appreciate it the way I have. jd
It seems that people who do almost nothing, often complain loudly when it's time to do it.
That last part is hard. Out of five grandchildren, only one has any interest in shooting, and all he wants to shoot is his Glocks. *sigh* Raised an urbanite, and an urbanite he will ever be.
Cognitive Dissident
It would be my guess that old buddy-duddies like us have been lamenting these same emotions for thousands of years.
"I can't believe my crazy grandson, Ragnar. That crazy kid traded the old family broad ax for one of those sissy little battle hatchets. How's he gonna lop heads with one of those toys??" jd
It seems that people who do almost nothing, often complain loudly when it's time to do it.
The only way I might consider a 25-20 for deer would be if an 86 was loaded to the 1900 fps vicinity. Nebraska requires 900 ft lbs at 100 yards and the 25-20 won’t do that at the muzzle.
Recently I was pleased to obtain an 1894CL in immaculate shape. The original owner loaded 900 rounds of WW 680 and the 75 Speer. The load in 30 odd year old cases would group into about three inch at fifty yards, essentially useless except maybe on close range raccoons. That is a trick as it is normally difficult to get the 75 Speer to group poorly. Too bad it is discontinued.
In the stash I had a number of nickeled cases. Those cases that survived firing got annealed as a fair percentage split on being fired.
I was greatly relieved when a thrown together but proven load of SR 4759, Dacron, and a couple of NOE plainbase designs went just under an inch on the initial trials at the same range. This runs about 1380 fps.
Great cartridge that kills well on the critters it is suited for with coyotes being the reasonable upper limit…or something not more than 60-80 lbs anyway, so you could throw such as the bigger water loving furbearers in as well.
I usually load it to three power levels, with most of the shooting being an 85-90 grain flatnose plainbase at 1100 fps or the same at 1350-1400. The 1400 odd fps loads get Dacron and this seems to reduce or eliminate gas cutting and produces a consistent bore condition that I rarely bother to clean.
Too bad we couldn't get enough people here to get starline to run a batch of 218 Bee, so we could have Bee brass and reform it to 25-20 too. Mine is the first centerfire rifle I had. A 24" octagonal/full mag. with a sewer pipe of a barrel. Sent it off to VM Starr to be re-lined. Shoots very well. Still have some 60gr HP WW bullets for it (NO, they aren't for sale!!). Great Jack Rabbit gun.
I’ve taken a fair amount of small game with the 25/20 using handloads that ranged from subsonic 55 grain hollow points to 86 grain JSP’s at near 2000 fps and it’s one of my favorite cartridges for that kind of work.
Whilst not a levergun, this Savage Sporter circa 1920 with vintage 3/4 inch weaver 2.75X scope has proven itself quite the game getter.
All these were taken with subsonic 55 grain hollow points.
86 grain JSP’s at 1900 hit them very hard and open up fairly quick and do a lot more damage than the old Speer 75 grain flat points.
75 grain Speers are not nearly as destructive as the 86 grainers at 1900 fps.
90 grain flat point subsonics are quite effective as well.
The 25/20 is a neat old cartridge and it’s a shame that components are not as readily available as we’d like them to be.
Thinking back almost 20 years, when I was living on a small farm in Michigan, my Stevens 44-1/2 chambered .25-20 SS took care of reducing the groundhog population on the place. Killed maybe a dozen over 3-4 years, without even leaving the dooryard. But I stopped using it because the bullets I was using would ricochet, and the area being almost billiard-table flat, a glance might go a long way. Which points up a downside to the .25-20 - there are no bullets that will reliably go to pieces at 2000 fps or less. I'm in Ohio coulee country now, but I still use a .223 bolter with light, thin-skinned Hornet bullets for 'hogs in the garden. I only kill paper with the .25-20s.
Cognitive Dissident
BP | Bronze Point | IMR | Improved Military Rifle | PTD | Pointed |
BR | Bench Rest | M | Magnum | RN | Round Nose |
BT | Boat Tail | PL | Power-Lokt | SP | Soft Point |
C | Compressed Charge | PR | Primer | SPCL | Soft Point "Core-Lokt" |
HP | Hollow Point | PSPCL | Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" | C.O.L. | Cartridge Overall Length |
PSP | Pointed Soft Point | Spz | Spitzer Point | SBT | Spitzer Boat Tail |
LRN | Lead Round Nose | LWC | Lead Wad Cutter | LSWC | Lead Semi Wad Cutter |
GC | Gas Check |