That is very cool! You don't post much, but when you do the quality is gold, sir! I don't think I will be able to do this, but it's nice to know it is doable!
That is very cool! You don't post much, but when you do the quality is gold, sir! I don't think I will be able to do this, but it's nice to know it is doable!
Great OP.
The "typical" primer re-loading discussion defaults to the corrosive choices. It is super to get details on a non-corrosive attempt.
FYI, another item that has deterred me is the challenge of anvil removal for SPP. Today, I converted 50 cases from SPP to LPP (38 SP). I have less than 1k SPP and more than 6K LPP (all from pre covid days). Using converted cases may eventually enable me to journey down the primer reloading quest without having to fight the tiny anvils of SPP.
This would be an easy method for making percussion caps. Easier than primers since there's no anvil, correct? I don't have any percussion guns.
Also, lighting BP would be easier than smokeless, so no worries there.
The next batch, which I am already working on, will use HS-6 in order to see if the primers can reliably ignite a slower pistol powder.
Castloader, thanks for the report!
I've been wondering how it worked out, ever since your 28 August post.
"Commerce with all nations, alliance with none, should be our motto."
- Thomas Jefferson
Just curious, have you tried a "drop test" on any of your remade primers? In other words, seat a primer in a case then drop the case onto a hard surface a couple dozen times. Just to make sure they are not too sensitive.
"...journalism may be the greatest plague we face today - as the world becomes more and more complicated and our minds are trained for more and more simplification"
Nassim Taleb
'Fooled by Randomness'
Percussion caps and berdan primers both save you the trouble of messing with anvils.
And as far as re-using cups, the other choice would be to make new cups. Just this year I made 7mm and 30 cal one stroke gas check makers.
I am confident an aluminum cup berdan primer for a low pressure pistol target round would work.
Now just to find brass ....
Rancher1913,
Thanks!
AKA "Old Vic"
"I am a great believer in powder-burning".
--Theodore Roosevelt, Hunting Trips of a Ranchman
Thanks for the write up on all this.
This all reminds me of my father (chemistry teacher) and father-in-law (explosives R&D).
My father's greatest problem is chemistry class was preventing the students from making chemicals that reacted violently. A fellow teacher had a student asst who improperly flushed the chemicals down the sink, basically making a contact explosive in the drain pipe when it dried out overnight. The next morning the first drop of water that hit it blew the pipes out. Luckily no one was hurt.
I did a summer research project with FIL using explosive mfg techniques, ie, bonding metal plates together with explosives. ANFO (lab grade, not fertilizer) was used a lot due to it's slower burn rate. Like playing with cake frosting
Hmmmm. Sounds a lot like Chabam Armor:
Attachment 292320
Mustang
"In the beginning... the patriot is a scarce man, and brave and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." - Mark Twain.
On to batch 2. definitely the worst part of making these is grinding the NC (nitrocellulose or Bullseye in this case) with the pyrex powder in the mortar & pestle. I did enough for 200 primers this time, but it takes some real elbow grease.
Batch 2 seems more refined than batch 1. I made a big flat anvil setter (flat punch) out of some scrap bar stock. It was great to get all the anvils centered and leveled quickly, but I found that in spite of tapping with a hammer, the set depth of the anvils, which should be exactly 3mm, still leaves some anvils dancing around with the shock of the punch setting anvils nearby. I think this could be the fact that I have various manufacturers primer cups and anvils. Slight tolerance differences between brands could account for the slop. I used the smaller punch to re-set a bunch of the primers. Overall, these look better than the first batch, and I'm encouraged.
Other items to note: I realized that I can dry primers in my Instant Pot! I set it for 130 degrees and it stays at about 115. This should dry them out in an hour or so. They're in a baby food jar to keep the Instant Pot clean.
Also, check out the pics of the inside of the brass! This combination of my primer plus Bullseye burns clean!!! The clean WIN brass was fired with my primers plus 3.0gr Bullseye as mentioned, and the dirty brass was Atlanta Arms 115gr Match HP.
Accuracy notes, attached is a pic of the target my father-in-law shot at about 7 yards standing offhand with my P365XL. 5 round group. He said he did so good because the red dot reminded him of the bomb sight on his F-111 back in the day. That gave me a chuckle. I don't give too much credit to the primers necessarily, but it's nice to know that they aren't causing accuracy problems. Once again these are 130gr RN PC from a modified Lee mould with the lube groove removed.
Future plans:
1)I plan to use A#9 which is the finest kernel powder I have and instead of grinding it into fine even powder with the pyrex, I'll just mix it in and do a test.
2)After that, I'll try a batch with aluminum powder instead of grit+NC and see what that does. Aluminum powder supposedly acts as a grit and a booster in some compositions, and even with this composition it is mentioned as a booster to assist with lighting slow-burning rifle powders, so it must be somewhat compatible.
Last edited by Castloader; 11-28-2021 at 08:47 PM. Reason: minor clarification
Grey jar is the priming compound ready to be charged into cups
The leather punch tool creates the perfect little tiny paper wads which are placed on top of the packed and wetted compound before the anvil is placed. The hypo needle is great at picking these up from a wooden bench and placing these tiny wads into the cups.
The pics seem to be loaded in reverse order and some are upside down. I can't figure out why these are upside down and the rest are not. Oh well. These pics show the whole process of charging the cups. First, the primer composition is spread evenly over all the cups and scraped with a razor blade to ensure even filling. Next, the powder is tamped with the smaller punch to compress it into the bottom of the cup., then the mixture is wetted with 50/50 clean water and isopropyl alcohol. The alcohol helps the water to be absorbed into the powder instead of sitting on top, and it also helps evaporation. The water is necessary for the reaction between the two chemicals. Next, the tiny paper wad is added, then the anvil is placed and pressed into place. The primer needs to dry and then is ready to fire.
each cup holds approximately .33 grains of lead nitratohypophosphite. (33gr for 100 primers)
FYI,
It is generally frowned upon to get lead containing compounds anywhere near items used for food prep.
A really good cleaning of the jar before placing in the instant pot might remove all visible traces of lead, but contamination is not always visible.
I am not fussing at you, I am just giving you something to think about.
Noted, but my hands are used for food prep also(not to mention eating outright), and I trust that a good cleaning of them is safe practice. (I used nitrile gloves for the dirtiest work as well) Glass is just about the easiest thing there is to clean followed by stainless steel, the two surfaces in contact. I've already noted the lead hazards involved, and I have determined that they are not so great as to deter me from attempting this. Still, I appreciate any words of caution or warning, "in the multitude of counselors there is safety" Prov 11:14. Cheers!
The Instant Pot successfully shortened the drying time to a couple hours. I set it for 3 hours and did a satisfactory test fire. This is going well!
First off, thank you for bringing this to Cast Boolits members attention and in doing a very professional job describing via written posts and some very good photography!
But just a caution, I am a little nervous about you congregating your wet primers into a baby food jar for drying.
Three44s
Quote Originally Posted by Bret4207
“There is more to this than dumping lead in a hole.”
I regrettably didn’t retain any primer sleeves to keep them in. I’m all for some ideas. I’ve decided to only make 100 in a batch so I’m not handling too many at once. The plan is to store them loaded into cases, since that seems to be an effective way of separating them. FWIW, the Instant Pot would act like a shield if something went wrong. I’d ruin my Instant Pot, but I think otherwise it would be ok. 33grains is nothing to sneeze at, but it’s nothing like a hand grenade. At any rate, let me know if you have suggestions. I’m all fordoing this more safely.
I did make enough composition for 200 in this batch, but half of it is still in the unwetted form. I’ll do another 100 soon.
BP | Bronze Point | IMR | Improved Military Rifle | PTD | Pointed |
BR | Bench Rest | M | Magnum | RN | Round Nose |
BT | Boat Tail | PL | Power-Lokt | SP | Soft Point |
C | Compressed Charge | PR | Primer | SPCL | Soft Point "Core-Lokt" |
HP | Hollow Point | PSPCL | Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" | C.O.L. | Cartridge Overall Length |
PSP | Pointed Soft Point | Spz | Spitzer Point | SBT | Spitzer Boat Tail |
LRN | Lead Round Nose | LWC | Lead Wad Cutter | LSWC | Lead Semi Wad Cutter |
GC | Gas Check |