What would you ask a CCI employee?

[Geezer in NH]

OEM primers marked that have not had the excise tax paid on them they were to be sold to licensed ammo manufactures only. The tax is paid when sold for the public by the ammo maker.

Pittsman/Robertson law taxing guns and ammo to go to the states for hunting conservation and other things like Public ranges.

[cwtebay]

I saw a few 100 packs of CCI LR "OEM" primers for sale at a store the other day. $12/100. I've never seen those before, what's that about?

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I purchased "a couple" of these in 2016 from a former small ammunition manufacturer. I believe that they were intended to be sold in loaded components only, thereby only paying the tax once. Perhaps I was misinformed?

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[wv109323]

I would ask what the difference is between CCI Std. Vel. and pistol match. Multiple times I have seen the SV more accurate than the pistol match. Ransom Rested in target pistols.
Is there priorities in shipments? Do police departments order get priority over standard orders?
Years back during the 22 lr shortage CCI gave a youth program several thousand rounds of ammo. How was that given priority?

[Idaho45guy]

Was able to talk to her a little bit and asked about primers. She said they received an order from Homeland Security for a million rounds so all small pistol primers were prioritized to be allocated for that order.

She also said that they had employees sitting around with nothing to do due to a shortage of raw materials. The biggest one was brass.

She said the primer was made entirely of brass. The silver colored cup is nickel-plated brass. I didn't know that.

[David2011]

the shortage is primarily being created by the industry.

Do you HONESTLY believe that 22 rimfire for example is going to be un findable if the factories are making it at the production they claim?

federal claimed they still had every round of 9mm rimmed in storage in 2010....

A good friend delivers a raw material to the Winchester plant in Illinois. They have no completed ammunition in the warehouse. Are you ignoring the increased demand by new gun owners and fear of the future?

[kfd518]

I would ask what the difference is between CCI Std. Vel. and pistol match. Multiple times I have seen the SV more accurate than the pistol match. Ransom Rested in target pistols.
Is there priorities in shipments? Do police departments order get priority over standard orders?
Years back during the 22 lr shortage CCI gave a youth program several thousand rounds of ammo. How was that given priority?

Give a bunch of kids that have a new found love of shooting a pile of ammo when there is none to be had you have likely made a lifelong customer.
That’s how it was given priority. That’s also what I would do if I was in a position to make that happen. They are the future of our country as well as the future of our armed forces and gun community in general.

[dverna]

Was able to talk to her a little bit and asked about primers. She said they received an order from Homeland Security for a million rounds so all small pistol primers were prioritized to be allocated for that order.

She also said that they had employees sitting around with nothing to do due to a shortage of raw materials. The biggest one was brass.

She said the primer was made entirely of brass. The silver colored cup is nickel-plated brass. I didn't know that.

She is an idiot. Anyone who thinks 1 million rounds will suck up primer supply is very inexperienced.

I expect she will not last long if her job requires any critical thinking.

[lightman]

I've always wanted to know the difference in manufacture between standard and match primers.

[Idaho45guy]

She is an idiot. Anyone who thinks 1 million rounds will suck up primer supply is very inexperienced.

I expect she will not last long if her job requires any critical thinking.

I would say that a 1 million round order for a single plant would be significant. She worked there for 14 years, so I would think that she knows a bit more about how various orders and allocations affect the production of the plant than most people.

She also made that statement in the context of the latest order and didn't imply that the single order was responsible for the nationwide shortage of primers over the last year.

She's a nice lady and it's unfortunate that you chose to call her an idiot.

[cwtebay]

She is an idiot. Anyone who thinks 1 million rounds will suck up primer supply is very inexperienced.

I expect she will not last long if her job requires any critical thinking.

While I am enjoying this dialogue - I don't feel that name calling is in order. This is a simple discussion concerning a former employee that neither of us knows, and her remarks are concerning a contract that may be one of many that are being managed.

1,000,000 primers for one single order!? That's quite a pile considering that it's to one single commitment! Especially considering that Homeland Security would likely have ordered in the tens of millions in loaded ammunition - 'tis a drop in a VERY large bucket of potential orders that this company may have committed to.




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[Ford SD]

if My math is correct there is 6 Zero's in a million

1 mill / 1000 = 1000 Bricks ..... 1k x 1k = 1 m

How many bricks in a case 10 ??

1million primers = 100 Cases ??

Not really a Lot, Possible its 2 Skids of primers ???? I never saw 2 skids of primers, to count them

[BunkTheory]

I would ask what the difference is between CCI Std. Vel. and pistol match. Multiple times I have seen the SV more accurate than the pistol match. Ransom Rested in target pistols.
Is there priorities in shipments? Do police departments order get priority over standard orders?
Years back during the 22 lr shortage CCI gave a youth program several thousand rounds of ammo. How was that given priority?

there is no actual difference between "standard", or "pistol". match or target denotions on the box are even less meaningful.

Best way to put it, going by the company sheets of Fiochi, CCI, and Aquila, pistol and standard velocity are the same thing.

With Eley, the fancier the name, technically means that the cartridges assembled in that lot data held a tighter grouping in their testing facility. And in many cases, there is a 5 to 10 dollar difference in price of a 50 round box of Eley 22lr based simply upon "this lot of assembled ammunition held a group size of 2 inches and 50 yards, while this other one held 2.5"

[dverna]

I would say that a 1 million round order for a single plant would be significant. She worked there for 14 years, so I would think that she knows a bit more about how various orders and allocations affect the production of the plant than most people.

She also made that statement in the context of the latest order and didn't imply that the single order was responsible for the nationwide shortage of primers over the last year.

She's a nice lady and it's unfortunate that you chose to call her an idiot.

Lake City produces 4 million rounds of ammunition per day....if someone thinks 1 million is a huge order, well...they may be nice, but...

Of course, for a small company like Federal, a 1 million round order in the last 14 years may be HUGE and memorable. LOL.

[M-Tecs]

there is no actual difference between "standard", or "pistol". match or target denotions on the box are even less meaningful.

Best way to put it, going by the company sheets of Fiochi, CCI, and Aquila, pistol and standard velocity are the same thing.

With Eley, the fancier the name, technically means that the cartridges assembled in that lot data held a tighter grouping in their testing facility. And in many cases, there is a 5 to 10 dollar difference in price of a 50 round box of Eley 22lr based simply upon "this lot of assembled ammunition held a group size of 2 inches and 50 yards, while this other one held 2.5"

Where do you come up with this stuff? It's hard to get that much misinformation in so few words. With price increases in the grade of 22LR your are getting tighter tolerances and quality control.

Federal no longer makes the Olympic Grade 22 ammunition mostly due to the tooling wearing out and a limited market. I did build some of the inspection tooling used for that application and the methods and QC used to produce their Olympic Grade 22LR and standard 22 were not remotely similar. That is the same for all world class 22LF manufactures.

There are very real differences in the grading and manufacture process. That being said some firearms have a preference that not only brand/grade related but lot to lot within a specific brand/grade.

[M-Tecs]

Lake City produces 4 million rounds of ammunition per day....if someone thinks 1 million is a huge order, well...they may be nice, but...

Of course, for a small company like Federal, a 1 million round order in the last 14 years may be HUGE and memorable. LOL.

I have no idea how many rounds Federal produces daily but just in 12 gauge trap loads they are currently producing 1.2 million per day.

[BunkTheory]

Lake City produces 4 million rounds of ammunition per day....if someone thinks 1 million is a huge order, well...they may be nice, but...

Of course, for a small company like Federal, a 1 million round order in the last 14 years may be HUGE and memorable. LOL.

yet can you or them actually show where it GOES

[M-Tecs]

yet can you or them actually show where it GOES

Yes LC provides military ammunition and each lot has a specific lot number that can track usage and when and where those lots were issued and expended. Every round is signed out via lot number and certified expended with the same lot number when it is expended. The military generally manufactures all the ammunition for their own usage. They do not sell to the civilian market. They do purchase from the civilian market when they can not met their own demand level.

Through the years I have shot a lot of IMI issued ammo. For the pistol marksmanship team the 38WC and the 45ACP SWC match was IMI, Federal and Winchester. For 22LR I have been issued Winchester White Box, Winchester T-22 in both rifle and pistol versions, Remington Target and various grades of Eley with Eley pistol on the low end and Eley TenX EPS on the high end and yes every box was tracked via lot number.

[David2011]

I've always wanted to know the difference in manufacture between standard and match primers.

According to a segment on one of the Outdoor Channel gun shows, match primers are made by the most skilled employees and are supposed to be more consistent than those made by other employees. All primers in that facility (CCI IIRC) were made by hand. All rimfire cartridges had the primer put in them by hand as well and then they're spun by a machine to sling the primer into the rim.

[cwtebay]

According to a segment on one of the Outdoor Channel gun shows, match primers are made by the most skilled employees and are supposed to be more consistent than those made by other employees. All primers in that facility (CCI IIRC) were made by hand. All rimfire cartridges had the primer put in them by hand as well and then they're spun by a machine to sling the primer into the rim.

Can you imagine; as an employer - saying hey you fellas (gals) make match primers. Based on some random impression(s) between your interactions with those employees - do you feel that's a reasonable / objective way of making precision versus masses? Because as an employer - cannot possibly imagine making that distinction on any given day.

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[fixit]

Question..... Why is homeland security buying primers? Last I heard, they weren't in the business of loading their own ammo. Sounds kinda fishy to me!