WidenersRotoMetals2Inline FabricationLoad Data
Reloading EverythingTitan ReloadingLee PrecisionRepackbox
MidSouth Shooters Supply

Thread: My homemade black powder

  1. #4601
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    178
    I also did some more screening. to only gather the grains between 30 and 40 mesh. This isn't to far from the mark after all, if I push it up slightly from 1.64 density to 1.7 I might be there...then again, maybe this is where I want to be.
    The narrower the screen range, to a small extent you get higher void space and thus lower overall density. My meshes are 15 (kitchen sieve), 20, 40, 60, 100. I need to get a 30 and a 50 to make the duplicate size ranges to commercial.
    To try and raise the bulk density I took my 20#-40# fraction, scooped a bit off the 60# (maybe 10%) and add it back to simulate a 20#-50# range of FFFg.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Meshes.JPG 
Views:	32 
Size:	37.4 KB 
ID:	290247
    Last edited by ChrisPer; 10-15-2021 at 12:55 AM.

  2. #4602
    Boolit Master almar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    580
    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisPer View Post
    The narrower the screen range, to a small extent you get higher void space and thus lower overall density. My meshes are 15 (kitchen sieve), 20, 40, 60, 100. I need to get a 30 and a 50 to make the duplicate size ranges to commercial.
    To try and raise the bulk density I took my 20#-40# fraction, scooped a bit off the 60# (maybe 10%) and add it back to simulate a 20#-50# range of FFFg.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Meshes.JPG 
Views:	32 
Size:	37.4 KB 
ID:	290247
    Humm, cant wait to try that after work today. good stuff.
    “It is not enough that we do our best; sometimes we must do what is required.”
    ― Winston S. Churchill

  3. #4603
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    1,124
    Quote Originally Posted by indian joe View Post
    For just front loaders I would not even bother with pucks, just make screened powder, so much easier and quicker - much less wastage (or reprocessing) in fines - easier and better control over grain size - it works just as good - density is low - I get about 75 grains in a measure that takes 100grains of commercial powder - for my cap revolvers I just fill the cylinder full to the top and compress it down with the rammer rod before I load the ball simple as .......
    Yeah front loaders work a treat on screened powder .
    Hey there Indian Joe. So loading in this manner, with a .45 cal revolver and your screened powder, just out of curiosity, what velocities do you get?

    Thanks!
    Vettepilot
    "Those who sacrifice freedom for security, have neither."
    Benjamin Franklin. (A very wise man!)

  4. #4604
    Boolit Master almar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    580
    Ok I did some shooting with the granules between 30 and 40 mesh with the 1.64 density powder, I put 10 shots through the chrono but 3 were garbage 111 fps and 16000+ fps readings so I removed them. All were 25 grains measured by weight.

    These are closeup pics of the swiss, brown powder 40 mesh and another batch of a mix between 30 and 60 mesh.

    Swiss:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	20211015_164517.jpg 
Views:	27 
Size:	55.1 KB 
ID:	290289

    30-60 mesh:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	20211015_164035.jpg 
Views:	23 
Size:	57.5 KB 
ID:	290290

    brown 30-40 mesh

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Brown 40 mesh macro.jpg 
Views:	28 
Size:	58.1 KB 
ID:	290291

    These are the velocities:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Screenshot_20211015-174300_Chronograph.jpg 
Views:	47 
Size:	18.7 KB 
ID:	290292

    The first shot was with a lubed bore so not the same as the others but this is pretty good. Swiss had an average velocity of 762 fps so about 13fps more than this...not too bad I would say. I may reduce the mesh size to range between 40 and 50 to increase the velocity if desired or given how swiss looks I may range between 30 and 50. I only ever shoot these short barrel pistols with BP really so why not customize my powder to my needs if I have the ability to do so. I believe this will get me close to 800 but it remains to be seen. I do have data on this brown stuff with mesh between 30 and 60 getting me about 850 ish so it can be done.

    I was expecting a better STdev reading given the more standardized grains size. Could be varying pressure applied to the seating of the projectiles, I don't know. Regardless, i'm at the fine tuning stage now, no more big developments I think at this point.
    Last edited by almar; 10-15-2021 at 07:34 PM.
    “It is not enough that we do our best; sometimes we must do what is required.”
    ― Winston S. Churchill

  5. #4605
    Boolit Bub
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    71
    Quote from Almar:
    I only ever shoot these short barrel pistols with BP really so why not customize my powder to my needs if I have the ability to do so.
    I believe this will get me close to 800 but it remains to be seen.
    I do have data on this brown stuff with mesh between 30 and 60 getting me about 850 ish so it can be done.
    Indeed, it can be done, you've certainly proved that.

    Interestingly, the powder which works best for short barrels may not be the powder which is best for long barrels.

    History seems to tell us that for the long barrel a slower burning larger grained powder will perform best.

    The real challenge is finding the ideal powder charge and type of powder which will create the pressure spike sweet spot in the barrel which achieves maximum velocity with maximum accuracy of projectile onto target.
    Last edited by SeaMonkey; 10-15-2021 at 11:17 PM.

  6. #4606
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2020
    Location
    Northwest Arkansas
    Posts
    665
    Almar;
    That looks pretty dang good to me! I don't know how long it's been, but you have set some kind of record getting from where you started to where you are! Congratulations on the successes, and the lessons gained from the near successes!
    I've been using the new grinder and sifting some powder, today. I had what I feel is less fines than I've ever had, thanks to that grinder and have never used one before. I got 3.5 ounces of fines out of 16. I pressed the fines over and am drying them out right now. I should be able to get a couple of tests, in the next two days, if all goes well. If I had known a ceramic burr grinder would take this much work out of it, I would have had one from the beginning. I could literally bust and grind a puck faster than I could sift it. It was taking three passes to get it right, and I think I'm going to loosen it up a bit and see if the fines don't drop a little more.

  7. #4607
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    178
    I am almost finished pressing the next batch, pucks look like going 1.76 after drying assuming I can get 6% moisture out of them.
    I built a mount for my press and screwed it to the workbench, I think I am getting WELL over 3500 psi, according to that luggage scale applied to the jack lever. And I am soaking it under pressure for an hour or two.

  8. #4608
    Boolit Master almar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    580
    Quote Originally Posted by indian joe View Post
    2015 (I think the second batch we made) got average of 740FPS - my 1851 navy "no such gun" 44 cal ASM - powder has improved since then in other guns but I have not tested pistol again - sons 44 Army colt holds more powder but have not chronoed it either - all my tests are at 20 feet from the muzzle - dont know how much difference that makes but it gets away from the headache of wads and patches messing up the readings.
    So that was screened powder NOT pressed pucks - thats the whole idea here just fillerup squish it down with the rammer - add a ball and go (lube either over or under too of course)

    couple of tests I did (in cartridge guns) with screened versus puck powder I got no difference in velocity using the same mix (75/15/10 + 2% dextrin) and same weight of powder - the problem came squeezing the weight of low density screened into a case (44/40) -- fill em up, compress it, top it up full, compress again, top up again, compress again. ---------- kind of a pain in the rear even tho it worked. Density for brass cases is the only reason I reckon to make pucks.
    I was under the impression that loading the cylinders of these revolvers is conceptually the same as loading brass rounds. How does it differ regarding corned or screened? Im not sure what a full load of this powder would do with a roundball...I may try it later.

    I'm thinking that corned gives you more variables to play with to optimize for a given platform. With screened you get a very low density powder that dosen't change its burn rate regardless of grain size, its just a fast flash. Or so I remember from back when I made it. With corned, you can regulate the burn rate with the grain size and density similar to smokeless in a way. Is this correct?
    Last edited by almar; 10-16-2021 at 11:25 AM.
    “It is not enough that we do our best; sometimes we must do what is required.”
    ― Winston S. Churchill

  9. #4609
    Boolit Master almar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    580
    Update on the kiln: its a plug and play. Set it and forget it. I controlled the rise before because I didn't want it to spike over the target temp but I just gave it a go to see what it would do today. It rose on its own to 555 and fluctuates between 560 and 549 nicely.
    “It is not enough that we do our best; sometimes we must do what is required.”
    ― Winston S. Churchill

  10. #4610
    Boolit Bub henryinpanama's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Lufkin, Texas
    Posts
    45
    Quote Originally Posted by almar View Post
    I think that's polishing media Vette...very small granules...not sure it can grind much, who knows.
    The description say 1 inch triangles.
    Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

  11. #4611
    Boolit Master almar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    580
    Quote Originally Posted by henryinpanama View Post
    The description say 1 inch triangles.
    Oh! I stand corrected. I wonder if they make 1/2 inch then?
    “It is not enough that we do our best; sometimes we must do what is required.”
    ― Winston S. Churchill

  12. #4612
    Boolit Man mmb617's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2021
    Posts
    99
    I pressed my first batch today. The 200 grams of powder made 4 pucks, which are 76.3mm in diameter (3 inch) and ranged in thickness from 3.5mm to 7.9mm. I think I added just a touch too much water as I was aiming for 4% by weight using a spray bottle that I measured as 0.7 grams of water per spritz. Some water squeezed out when I pressed them, but not a lot.

    I weighed the pucks just off the press and they were right at 1.7grams per cubic centimeter so if they don't lose much weight drying I think I'm in the right ballpark.

    The pucks are in the dehydrator now so maybe they'll be dry enough to break up and screen tomorrow. I don't yet know how long that part takes.

    With luck I'll get to try my homemade powder by Monday.

  13. #4613
    Boolit Master almar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    580
    Quote Originally Posted by mmb617 View Post
    I pressed my first batch today. The 200 grams of powder made 4 pucks, which are 76.3mm in diameter (3 inch) and ranged in thickness from 3.5mm to 7.9mm. I think I added just a touch too much water as I was aiming for 4% by weight using a spray bottle that I measured as 0.7 grams of water per spritz. Some water squeezed out when I pressed them, but not a lot.

    I weighed the pucks just off the press and they were right at 1.7grams per cubic centimeter so if they don't lose much weight drying I think I'm in the right ballpark.

    The pucks are in the dehydrator now so maybe they'll be dry enough to break up and screen tomorrow. I don't yet know how long that part takes.

    With luck I'll get to try my homemade powder by Monday.
    you can try to break them up into coffee bean sizes today to quicken the drying if you want to wait till its dry before grinding.
    “It is not enough that we do our best; sometimes we must do what is required.”
    ― Winston S. Churchill

  14. #4614
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    1,124
    Quote Originally Posted by almar View Post
    I was under the impression that loading the cylinders of these revolvers is conceptually the same as loading brass rounds. How does it differ regarding corned or screened? Im not sure what a full load of this powder would do with a roundball...I may try it later.

    I'm thinking that corned gives you more variables to play with to optimize for a given platform. With screened you get a very low density powder that dosen't change its burn rate regardless of grain size, its just a fast flash. Or so I remember from back when I made it. With corned, you can regulate the burn rate with the grain size and density similar to smokeless in a way. Is this correct?
    Well, the problem with attempting to load cartridges with our BP is where the bulk density of the granulated powder comes into play. Modern brass cartridges have less internal volume than the old black powder cases, due to being made stronger to tolerate the higher pressures of smokeless powder. Getting anywhere near the original charge of black powder into them is quite difficult. So a powder than has a lower bulk density makes getting enough powder into the cases even more problematic. With muzzle loaders, you can just increase the volumetric measure of powder you load to compensate for the lower bulk density, as room for the powder is less of a problem with revolvers, and no problem at all with rifles.

    Generally, WEIGHED charges of our lower density powder will have the same power as commercial, but a greater bulk. Hence the problem on using granulated powder in cartridges. Corning the powder gives greater bulk density, helping with these problems.

    As regards screen grading powder, I do my granulated powder just like corned (compressed) powder.

    Vettepilot
    Last edited by Vettepilot; 10-16-2021 at 05:48 PM.
    "Those who sacrifice freedom for security, have neither."
    Benjamin Franklin. (A very wise man!)

  15. #4615
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    1,124
    Quote Originally Posted by almar View Post
    Oh! I stand corrected. I wonder if they make 1/2 inch then?
    I will try to get a picture of that media posted today. It's much larger than the HF photo would have you think. I believe Harbor Freight only has the one size, but similar media in other sizes is available elsewhere.

    Vettepilot
    "Those who sacrifice freedom for security, have neither."
    Benjamin Franklin. (A very wise man!)

  16. #4616
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    178
    mmb617, good work!
    Do you have a guess at the force you pressed, and how much time under pressure?

  17. #4617
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    1,124
    Quote Originally Posted by almar View Post
    Update on the kiln: its a plug and play. Set it and forget it. I controlled the rise before because I didn't want it to spike over the target temp but I just gave it a go to see what it would do today. It rose on its own to 555 and fluctuates between 560 and 549 nicely.
    Nice!! That's so cool. I want one!!

    So, how long does it take to cook a paint can of wood at 550 in your kiln? How long does it take to get to 550?

    The other day I cooked a batch of Alder smoking chips I'm going to test. These chips were very fine. Finer than the cedar pet bedding chips. I monitored the temp closely on my dutch oven on the turkey fryer. I took the Kaowool insulation away from around the oven and turned the flame to low when it hit around 475 degrees. By the time it climbed (quickly) up to 600, it was already done. This was just like the cedar chips. Total cook time from cold start was maybe 40 minutes.

    Just like last time, with the cedar chips, most of the smoking ocurred at from 250 to 450, and by the time it hit 600, it was about done.

    Vettepilot
    "Those who sacrifice freedom for security, have neither."
    Benjamin Franklin. (A very wise man!)

  18. #4618
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2020
    Location
    Northwest Arkansas
    Posts
    665
    Quote Originally Posted by mmb617 View Post
    I pressed my first batch today. The 200 grams of powder made 4 pucks, which are 76.3mm in diameter (3 inch) and ranged in thickness from 3.5mm to 7.9mm. I think I added just a touch too much water as I was aiming for 4% by weight using a spray bottle that I measured as 0.7 grams of water per spritz. Some water squeezed out when I pressed them, but not a lot.

    I weighed the pucks just off the press and they were right at 1.7grams per cubic centimeter so if they don't lose much weight drying I think I'm in the right ballpark.

    The pucks are in the dehydrator now so maybe they'll be dry enough to break up and screen tomorrow. I don't yet know how long that part takes.

    With luck I'll get to try my homemade powder by Monday.
    MMB617;
    My dehydrator usually will dry them within 8 hours, but I would think 24 would surely be enough. If you weigh your pucks and measure your water before pressing them, you can just dry them until they weigh their original weight. I've found my dry powder to normally take 1/2 gram/cc/ml of water per ounce to get really close to correct pressing moisture, at <50% Relative Humidity. In higher humidity, I start my first puck there, and if it's too much, I cut it back even more. I've ever only lost moisture one time keeping it at the above ratio. That night it was raining and 100% R.H.
    If you get the water droplets pressing out, one thing you can do is back off your press and let the pucks set a couple of minutes and they will sponge most all the moisture back up. At least you can recover nearly all the KNO3 that it leached that way. It's still not a good thing but less of a bad thing.
    Good luck with your first batch of powder! Let us know how it turns out and your observations!

  19. #4619
    Boolit Master almar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    580
    Quote Originally Posted by Vettepilot View Post
    Nice!! That's so cool. I want one!!

    So, how long does it take to cook a paint can of wood at 550 in your kiln? How long does it take to get to 550?

    The other day I cooked a batch of Alder smoking chips I'm going to test. These chips were very fine. Finer than the cedar pet bedding chips. I monitored the temp closely on my dutch oven on the turkey fryer. I took the Kaowool insulation away from around the oven and turned the flame to low when it hit around 475 degrees. By the time it climbed (quickly) up to 600, it was already done. This was just like the cedar chips. Total cook time from cold start was maybe 40 minutes.

    Just like last time, with the cedar chips, most of the smoking ocurred at from 250 to 450, and by the time it hit 600, it was about done.

    Vettepilot
    Hey thanks for the explanation about the brass cases Vette.

    I don't really recall how much time it takes to get to 550, under an hour for sure I would say. I let it cook for about 1.45 hours total after it reached target with a full (small) can. You may need more or less...This is supposed to be fun and chasing numbers made it not fun anymore...im going to enjoy this now, I tried the indian joe's "fun time" charge of 65 grains of goex 2f under a .460 ball in my walker off my porch just now in the dark...yeah its fun, it was daytime for a split sec. I would say joe, I can one up you a bit with a 42 grain charge of lil'gun under a 350 gr bullet in a 6 inch 500 mag...that is like the hammer of thor and Nagasaki combined.
    Last edited by almar; 10-16-2021 at 10:09 PM.
    “It is not enough that we do our best; sometimes we must do what is required.”
    ― Winston S. Churchill

  20. #4620
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2020
    Location
    Northwest Arkansas
    Posts
    665
    I finished up my powder this afternoon, and had about 24 grams of fines left over that I didn't want to mess with, so I wetted it and screened and dried it. Tonight I pulled out the linear burn rate tester and videoed the test. I put a 1/8th inch line in the bottom of a 1 inch angle iron, 4 feet long and it was maybe my fastest ever powder. I will have to count frames on it, to see how fast it really was, but it burned 38 inches in less than one second. This Black Willow 'Brown' powder may be the real deal!
    I plan to get a last word on it with the chronograph tomorrow, if the Lord wills. The burn rate was right with Balsa and it appeared clean, in that it seemed to be very moist residue. Balsa has been my fastest tested burn rate of all the powders I've tested. I think I overcooked everything I've made, to this point, it appears. I base that assumption on the Balsa, because even though it was blazing fast, it basically tied for third fastest bullet speeds. I don't know if the picture will give an accurate representation of the color, but there is a lot of brown/black on the paper towel and it is not rust.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	20211017_021318 (2).jpg 
Views:	26 
Size:	33.4 KB 
ID:	290357

Page 231 of 403 FirstFirst ... 131181221222223224225226227228229230231232233234235236237238239240241281331 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check