Originally Posted by
TurnipEaterDown
So: Here is some data I worked up, complete with Notes from my own evaluations.
Please understand that the text formatting went wonky when I copied over, so I have fixed best I can. It it looks odd, try stretching or compressing window size in the horizontal direction.
PLEASE NOTE THAT THIS DATA IS NOT PRESSURE TESTED, WAS GATHERED FROM LIMITED TESTING IN LIMITED CLIMATIC CONDITIONS AND LACKS SUITABLE SAMPLE SIZE TO UNDERSTAND VARIABILITY OR STATISTICAL ANOMALY.
That said:
FSP 759 STICK
35 Whelen Improved, 24" Barrel, 1917 Mauser GEW 98 rebarreled 1:14" twist
This gun likely has a bolt face non perpendicular to bore.
First pressure sign from gun is always shearing of rim from ejector blade slot when opening bolt.
Hornady 250 SP, RP brass 0.279 Sectional Density 3.290"
FSP 759, R 9 1/2
Estimate 54.5 Max
Charge Energy Velocity energy/gr velocity change / gr
54 2845 2265 53
Edge of firing pin indent very rounded, and smooth interior.
55 3155 2385 57 120
?” (5) 4.125" (4) & 0.875" (3) @ 100 yd, F210, Dorked 2 from gun going off on next bench. Edge of firing pin indent beginning to sharpen
55.5 Not Chronographed
5.25" (4) & 3.125" (3) @ 100 yd Primers look OK, but flow of cup into pit on bolt face for every one. 1/4 rims just beginning to get marked from EJ slot.
56.5 3466 2500 61 77
1.125 (2) @ 100 yd CHRONOGRAPH LOAD Looked fine, no bolt lift issue, rounded primer outer edge, no rim flow into EJ, etc. Edge of firing pin indent sharpened though, and machining marks on tip were transposed to primer cup. In group test, second primer failed, primer riveted and shined by bolt rotation, one narrow band on head shined by bolt rotation (EJ slot), and I stopped shooting group.
~ 7% faster than H380 Acting close to RL15 H380 = 2416 fps @ 59 gr, 44500 CUP
35 Whelen Imp, 250 Speer (Maximums 1.5 gr & 100 fps less than Hornady 250 SP)
FSP 759: 55 gr Max w/ 250 Speer, and do not use WLR (Recommend F210)
All these FSP759 primer test loads were at 82°F, shot in succession on same day
FSP759 test loads @ 3.278" COL
Charge Energy Velocity energy/gr velocity change / gr
R 9 1/2 53 2896 2285 55 Clean neck & shoulder for all
R 9 1/2 54 2946 2305 55 20 Primer flow into dimple on bolt face & shearing, initiation of rim flow
R 9 1/2 55 3089 2360 56 55 Primer flow into dimple on bolt face & shearing, initiation of rim flow
R 9 1/2 55.5 3261 2425 59 130 Primer flow into dimple on bolt face & shearing, no visible rim flow
FSP 759
F210 53 2833 2260 53 No case rim flow, primers look good (has dimple, but no shearing)
F210 54 2934 2300 54 40 No case rim flow, primers look good (has dimple, but no shearing)
F210 55 3141 2380 57 80 No case rim flow, primers look good (has dimple, but no shearing)
F210 55.5 3194 2400 58 40 No case rim flow, primers look good (has dimple, but no shearing)
FSP 759
WLR 53 2883 2280 54
WLR 54 3050 2345 56 65 Primer flow into dimple on bolt face & shearing, initiation of rim flow
WLR 55 3194 2400 58 55 Primer flow into dimple on bolt face & shearing, initiation of rim flow
WLR 55.5 3168 2390 57 -20 Primer flattened more than advisable, no visible rim flow
Velocity not noticeably affected by primer. Cup flow was, could have been cup material OR pressure.
F210 Appears to produce less pressure by rim indications.
Acting somewhat like BLC-2 for velocity/charge BUT higher evident pressures
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243 Winchester
100 gr Remington PSP WLR MAX @ 2800
Ramshot Big Game NO DATA for 100 gr. H380, I4895 & I4064: 36 gr, H4895: 33 gr.
FSP759, WLR Charge Energy Velocity energy/gr velocity change / gr
STICK 28.3 1235 2360 44 Sooted
29 1168 2295 40 -92.86 Sooted
29.7 1272 2395 43 143 Some Sooting
30.4 1267 2390 42 -7 Some Sooting
COL = 2.700" 31.1 1310 2430 42 57 Some Sooting
31.8 1337 2455 42 36 Some Sooting
32.5 1437 2545 44 129 Clean looking case & normal report "crack"
33.2 1511 2610 46 93 Clean looking case & normal report "crack"
33.9 1482 2585 44 -36 Clean looking case & normal report "crack"
34.6 1544 2638 45 76 Clean looking case & normal report "crack"
35.3 1623 2705 46 96 Neck cracked
36 1708 2775 47 100 Neck cracked
Acting like H380
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7x57
Sierra 120 SP 2.980" COL (w/o comparator) 0.213 Sectional Density
Pressure seems to come on abruptly with this cartridge, bullet & powder. Could be section density (bullet inertia) issue.
47 - 47.3 is probably maximum. WLR FSP 759
Charge Energy Velocity Enery/charge wt Velocity gain/gr
42 1572 2430 37 Very sooted, even at Base of case. Edge of firing pin indent very rounded. Bolt face machining marks on only ~ 1/2 of primer radius. Very low pressure.
43 1731 2550 40 120 Very sooted, even at Base of case
44.5 1855 2640 42 60 Sooted, even some 1/2 way down case
46 2035 2765 44 83 adequate pressure, case not sooted
47.2 2216 2885 47 100 adequate pressure, case not sooted
Acting like H380 AFTER pressure came up H380 = 2850 fps
Sierra 160 Sp 3.535" (w/ comparator), 3.045" COL 0.284 Sectional Density 0.065" off lands 2.980" COL (w/o comparator)
Probably Max @ 42 FSP 759 WLR
Charge Energy Velocity energy/charge wt delta v/delta charge
36.5 #REF! not shot
38 1861 2290 49
39.5 1977 2360 50 47
41 2122 2445 52 57
42 2209 2495 53 50 Fine by primer & bolt lift
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8x57
8x57, 196 Hornady Match 2400 - 2600 MAX
Reformed PPU 30-06 brass 3.555" w/ comparator using 30 CAL insert (3.565 touches)
49 Max by Vel
FSP759, F210 STICK
Charge Energy Velocity energy/gr velocity change / gr
43 1932 2108 45 Clean neck & shoulder for all, even start load
44 2059 2176 47 68
45.2 2191 2245 48 57
46.4 2328 2314 50 58 bolt face machining marks becoming defined on primer face
47.6 chrono miss Est 2390 fps
48.8 2696 2490 55 83 Looks fine
50 Did Not Shoot 0 0
Acting like Varget
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30-06 w/ FSP 759, 24" Rem 700
Hornady 150 SP. Loaded to 3.740" (with the compartor) to fit in the magazine To touch the rifiling was 3.825.
WLR primer and mixed brass, Mostly winchester and Federal.
Velocity increase per grain is mostly smooth, noting 2 shot "groups"
0.226 Sectional Density
H380 tops out at 3000 fps, Ramshot Big Game 3050 fps
Likely 56.5 Max charge weight on this 150 gr bullet
Powder weight Velocity delta V/ delta gr Energy energy/charge wt gain
42.5 2233 1659 39
44 2326 62 1800 41
47 2531 68 2132 45 Min charge for good combustion
50 2642 37 2323 46
53 2781 46 2573 49
55 2913 66 2824 51
56 2976 63 2947 53
57 Didn't fire
3000 fps likely max
Faster than Big Game, Slower than IMR4064
Similar to IMR4007SSC
Speer 165 Deep Curl SP. Loaded to 3.xxx"
WLR primer
Velocity increase per grain is mostly smooth, noting 2 shot "groups"
0.226 Sectional Density
Likely 55.5 Max charge weight on this 165 gr bullet
Powder weight Velocity delta V/ delta gr Energy energy/charge wt gain
45 2342 1825 41
46.5 2372 20 1872 40
48 2427 37 1960 41
49.5 2543 77 2152 43 Min for good combustion
51 2598 37 2246 44
51.8 2649 64 2335 45
52.6 2665 20 2363 45
53.4 2705 50 2435 46
54.2 2735 37 2489 46
Hornady 180 SP
COL w/comp 3.785 so it would fit in the mag 3.818 to touch rifling
0.271 Sectional Density
Likely 52, Possibly 53.5 - 54 Max charge weight on this 180 gr bullet.
Charge Weight Velocity delta V/ delta gr Energy energy/charge wt gain
38 2042 1665 44
41 2175 44 1889 46
44 2318 48 2145 49
47 2453 45 2403 51
49 2565 56 2627 54
50 2605 40 2710 54
51 2649 44 2802 55
52 2683 34 2874 55
The velocity tailing off per charge weight increase 51-52 is a warning, but may be normal variation.
H380 tops out at 2680 fps, Ramshot Big Game 2768 fps"
Slower than IMR4064
Acting Somewhat like H380 2650 - 2750 fps likely max
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260 Remington
15" XP100R
FSP 759 129 SP Hornady Acting like RL15
Charge Energy Velocity energy/charge wt delta v/delta charge
31 1162 2015 37
34 1404 2215 41 67
36 1554 2330 43 58
38 1861 2550 49 110
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FSP 749 FLAKE
Looks like any Compression is NOT a good idea in these initial tests, and pressure may come on Suddenly.
This statement on Compression from 70 gr load on 243, assuming equivalent to 4064.
HOWEVER, this powder actually acts much like IMR 3031, and so it likely was an overcharge creating high pressure and Not compression.
243 Winchester
FSP749 243 Win, Sierra BTHP Match 2nds 3.235" w/ comp
Reformed Win 308 brass
Primers 29.2-38 all look fine, all had soot on neck & shoulder
38gr Absolute MAX 3300 fps prob. Max
Acts like IMR3031 here
Charge Energy Velocity energy/gr velocity change / gr
29.2 1153 2725 39
30.5 1230 2815 40 69
31.8 1310 2905 41 69
33.1 1393 2995 42 69
34.4 1468 3075 43 62
35.7 1660 3270 47 150
37 1696 3305 46 27
IMR3031 max, 37 gr @ 3300 fps
38 1779 3385 47 80
No EJ mark Primers 38-39.4 all look fine, rounded edge, no sharp transition at any surface
38.7 1902 3500 49 164
4 shots 80°F, 80+% RH Fired --> 0.465 rim, 0.467 head above extractor groove
39.4 1913 3510 49 14
4 shots 80°F, 80+% RH Fired --> 0.465 rim, 0.467 head above extractor groove
40 2106 3683 53 288
1 shot Blown Primer!!!! Bolt stuck
80°F, 80+% RH Fired --> 0.490 rim, 0.477 head above extractor groove, 0.243" primer hole (0.209 is normal)
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8x57
8x57, Sierra 175 SP flat base 3.14" COL
Reformed PPU 30-06 brass ~ equal IMR3031 for max, slower at low end
FSP749 FLAKE F210 47 Max ~2600 fps
Charge Energy Velocity energy/gr velocity change / gr
39.8 1965 2250 49
Sooty neck & shoulder
41 2126 2340 52 75
Sooty neck & shoulder
42.3 2255 2410 53 54
Sooty neck & shoulder
43.6 2330 2450 53 31
Sooty neck & shoulder
44.9 2455 2515 55 50
bolt face machining marks becoming defined on primer, sooting on shoulder gone
46.2 2564 2570 55 42
~ IMR3031 max equivalent IMR3031 46.4 @ 2600
47.5 2675 2625 56 42
Fairly flat primer w/ defined bolt face machining marks
48.8 Compressed Did not shoot
SAECO Cast 195. 197 g lubed checked -- "HP Alloy", sized at 0.325" 2.967" COL
M24-47 Mauser M7132, Original military, 4x Simmons
FSP749 FLAKE WLP
All WLP looked fine 24-30, none particularly sooty
~10% "faster" than IMR3031
Charge Energy Velocity energy/gr velocity change / gr
24 983 1500 41
25 1119 1600 45 100
26 1161 1630 45 30
27 1248 1690 46 60
28 1338 1750 48 60
29 1416 1800 49 50
30 1512 1860 50 60
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41-40 Modified M95 Steyr. 19" Shilen barrel. 30-40 Craig case opened to 416. 2.205" trim length
Accurate 290 gr Spitzer CAST GC (294 gr actual, checked & lubed) 2.785" COL
~0.400 bullet intrusion into case (0.975" bullet) R 9 1/2 primer
Mold 42-290G Act wt. 294
Max possible expected velocity = 2100 fps
MAX Targeted vel 2050 2741 Target energy
FSP749 FLAKE 47 gr fits to base of bullet
This gun NEVER shows ANY Primer flattening signs. Will fail primers and leave them rounded on edges.
DO NOT COMPRESS!!! EST 10% LESS THAN 4895
Charge Velocity Energy delta V/gr E/gr Delta E/gr
36.7 1522 1511 41.16
38 1723 1936 155 50.95 327
39.3 1683 1847 -31 47.00 -68
40.6 1646 1767 -28 43.52 -62
41.9 1741 1977 73 47.18 161
43.2 1708 1903 -25 44.04 -57
44.5 1732 1956 18 43.96 41
45.5 1820 2160 88 47.48 204
46 1760 2020 -120 43.92 -280
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35 Remington
180 Hornady SSP est 2100 max FSP749 FLAKE WLP
Used WLP to get earliest possible indication of pressure: RF firing pin hole mark on edge of primer
MAX FILL: 35.4 to base of Neck Bullet seated base to base of neck
IMR3031 = 39 max
FSP 749 36 gr MAX? 33.7 FSP749 ~ 1900, ~7% faster than IMR3031
Charge Energy Velocity delta V/gr E/gr delta E/gr
29.4 1023 1601 34.8
30.6 1114 1670 57.50 36.4 75.10
31.8 1326 1822 126.67 41.7 176.61
33 1317 1816 -5.00 39.9 -7.26
34.2 1594 1998 151.67 46.6 230.97
Still somewhat rounded, no crater edge at FP hole, no RF pin mark
35.4 1512 1946 -43.33 42.7 -68.24
Still somewhat rounded, no crater edge at FP hole, no RF pin mark
36 Did not load or shoot, concerned about compression
IMR3031 Equivalent: 35.9 @ 1900 fps