I never buy from Cabellas, or BassPro. I think of them as "boutique" sporting goods stores with unrealistic prices.
I never buy from Cabellas, or BassPro. I think of them as "boutique" sporting goods stores with unrealistic prices.
Death to every foe and traitor and hurrah, my boys, for freedom !
If it smells like a straw purchase they aren't going to touch it, more hassle than it is worth for them.
I unfortunately bought a small tractor from cabelas just before they sold off. 5 year warranty. 3 months after purchase, I got a letter from their corporate office stating they were discontinuing the tractor line, but would be there for warranty and service and if needed handle obtaining service if their centers closed. about 6 months after that they were sold and as a result Bass Pro denied ANY responsibility for ANY parts and service on these machines. Luckily I've only had minor issues except for gas tank cracking due to defective plastic weld, and at the last minute the service mgr for old cabelas got me a replacement, that I had to install.
I've bought two guns from Cabelas, but I'll never buy another from Bass Pro, nor anything else if I can get it from another store. They Really left a bad taste in my mouth.
Story sounds somewhat fishy, but quite possibly true. The staff is not what it was under cabelas
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Kalispell, MT Blue city in a red state. Yes, things have changed greatly in "what America use to be" but it is a cultural shift! Cabela's is not the sporting goods 'goto' store it used to be, hasn't been for at least 30 years. Just another 'big box' store and conglomerate looking for profit, and the quality of it's inventory is sad. OH and Kalispell has been the destination for over 40 years for ...... (fill in as you like)!
West of Beaver Dick's Ferry.
Cabela's started going south when the brother's went public. The Bass Pro buyout sure didn't help at all.
Purchasing as a gift is 100% legal providing you are using your own money and the gift recipient is not a prohibited person.
Again not taking Cabela's side but any doubt the sales person has on a firearm sale is enough to LEGALLY stop the sale. I have been asked a couple of times for "the cheapest gun powerful enough to kill a people". That ended the discussion and of course no sale.
Lot of reasons I know longer go to Cabela's, however, this is not one of them.
https://rocketffl.com/firearms-as-gifts/
Wait, isn’t it illegal to purchase a firearm for someone else? Wouldn’t that be a straw purchase?
Not necessarily. Let me explain…
On the Form 4473, the paperwork for purchasing a firearm from a gun dealer, a purchaser must truthfully answer question 11a (along with the rest of the form, of course) which asks whether the person filling out the form is the actual purchaser:
“Are you the actual transferee/buyer of the firearm(s) listed on this form? Warning: You are not the actual transferee/buyer if you are acquiring the firearm(s) on behalf of another person. If you are not the actual transferee/buyer, the licensee cannot transfer the firearm(s) to you. . . “
As you may know, a straw purchase is when someone fills out the 4473 for someone else who is actually purchasing the firearm. This is most common when the actual purchaser can’t pass the background check because they are a prohibited person. The prohibited person gets someone, often a significant other, to go into the gun store and pretend like they are the actual purchaser so that the firearm can be purchased for the prohibited person. This is a serious crime!
Last edited by M-Tecs; 06-15-2021 at 01:03 PM.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
https://www.usnews.com/news/articles...%20authorities.
Dealer's Choice: Gun Store Owners Can Deny Anyone They Want
People who pass background checks still face de facto gun control hurdle.
By Steven Nelson
June 17, 2016, at 5:29 p.m.
U.S. News & World Report
Dealer's Choice: Gun Store Owners Can Deny Anyone They Want
Congressional Democrats appear as unlikely as ever to pass new gun control legislation after the deadliest mass shooting in modern U.S. history, but gun store owners say there’s one effective and easy-to-hone tool that could stop future attacks: their gut.
Gun dealers tell U.S. News they can and do refuse to sell to people they have a bad feeling about and say that fellow gun store owners could help prevent lunatics and religious fanatics from acquiring the tools needed for mass murder.
Florida Gun Supply owner Andy Hallinan has been blunt about his claimed discretion. He has a sign on the door of his central Florida shop that says “Muslim Free Zone” and last year defeated a lawsuit that claimed illegal discrimination, with a federal judge finding opponents lacked standing.
Hallinan says he has not knowingly refused a sale to a Muslim – his aim is to discourage all Muslim shoppers, he says, so he won’t have to decide if they are jihadis – but he says that he has refused sales to white men who passed background checks.
He says two men with sagging pants wanted to buy inexpensive weapons at a gun show, but he overheard them talking about “all sorts of drama going down at their houses” and told them he would not sell to them.
“I said, ‘I’m sorry guys, I will not sell a firearm to you [because] I don’t believe a firearm should be permitted in your lifestyle,'” he says. “They got all bent out of shape and swore they would file lawsuits, but at the end of the day the ATF gives me the discretion to deny guns to whomever I please depending on whatever I feel is necessary.”
Hallinan says he’s willing to refuse sales to anyone who appears nervous or gives a poor indication of why they want the gun.
Ginger Colbrun, public affairs chief for the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, says licensed gun dealers have broad discretion to deny sales, such as in instances where a buyer appears to exhibit erratic behavior.
“As private business owners, [Federal Firearms License holders] can and do use discretion in determining to whom they will or will not provide service,” Colbrun says.
Suspected straw purchases – in which one person illegally buys a gun for another person – are the most common reason a gun store owner would refuse a sale and alert authorities. But the reason can also be used as an excuse.
“I can refuse a gun sale for any reason whatsoever, I don’t even have to like the color shoes you have on and I can refuse a gun sale at that point, and I don’t have to disclose the reason,” says Tim Wolverton, owner of Downrange Sporting Goods in Jackson, Mississippi.
If a gun store owner wanted to discriminate against a customer named Muhammad, Wolverton says, they could simply say, “at that point I believe it’s a ‘straw purchase,’” though even that explanation is not required.
Sometimes, gun store owners save lives by acting on a hunch.
John Downs, the owner of Downs Bait & Guns in Logan, Ohio, was celebrated in March when he refused to sell a gun to a man who passed a required background check, citing a bad feeling. He called 911 when the man returned, and police said Downs likely prevented a mass shooting.
Downs says store owners can learn about the intentions of customers by talking with them, and he advises fellow arms dealers to be vigilant.
“Just by talking to the person you get a feel of what they’re going to do with a firearm – to a point,” he says.
Downs says the government should more closely vet people who have mental disorders or potential jihadi leanings, but that “common sense” can be a substitute in the meantime.
“I hate to say I’m racist, but when you have somebody of that descent and being a Muslim and stuff, what do they want that gun for? What are they doing?” he says.
In Florida, Lotus Gunworks co-owner Robert Abell said this week his store refused to sell body armor and ammunition to gunman Omar Mateen, who murdered 49 people Sunday at a nightclub, after his questions and demeanor raised red flags.
Abell said the store informed the FBI, but did not take down Mateen’s name.
Wolverton, who once jestfully banned sales to Democrats, says that’s one thing store owners can do better.
“I did let a few get out of here when I was new at it without taking their information,” Wolverton says about past suspicious customers. “At this point, I let them fill out the whole sheet and get their driver’s license and that’s the point at which I don’t make the sale.”
At some stores, however, there are few denials of people, but for the odd straw purchase suspect.
Christopher Cole, manager of Lou’s Firearms in New Jersey, says in six years he's only had to turn away a couple people suspected of buying guns for others. He says a large law enforcement clientele may serve as a deterrent.
Of course, no amount of gun control – legislative or discretionary – can prevent all gun homicides.
Hallinan says if gun stores somehow were able to block all sales to would-be killers, weapons still can be purchased illegally, though most street items are cheap handguns rather than more expensive semiautomatic weapons like the Sig Sauer MCX used by Mateen.
Mateen bought the guns he used in the massacre at the St. Lucie Shooting Center after passing a background check. At a press conference, store owner Ed Henson said, "If he hadn't purchased them from us, I'm sure he would have gotten them from another local gun store in the area.”
Hallinan strongly disagrees, saying that at his store he recently stalled a purchase of two AR-15 parts to a “little old lady.” She was buying them for her son, which would be legal as a gift but not if he gave her money to buy them.
He says the household was cleared by authorities before he made the sale and that he’s considering setting up an association to train gun sellers to spot potential troublemakers, who despite concern about radical Muslims are often mentally ill people.
Downs, the Ohio dealer, and other store owners say sale of an AR-15-type weapon would not earn much profit and that it’s not worth taking a risk and selling one to someone who may misuse it.
“Is $80 worth someone’s life or several people’s lives? I don’t think so,” he says.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
Still has to go thru an FFL and if the FFL has any doubts the purchaser has three options. One pay for a the return shipping and transfer fee to return to the seller for a refund or turn it over to the shipped too FFL and take a 100% loss.
Never had to do it with a suspicion but have ran into it several times with NICS denials. With a denial you have a third option. Have the receiving FFL hold it while you appeal. If you win you can pick it up. If you lose the return time frame is normally long past and the receiving FFL is stuck in the middle. Legally I don't know what options are actually available, however, in the one case I am aware of the purchaser just walked away after losing the NICS appeal for a 100% lose and the receiving FFL kept the firearm.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
refuse sale because sale associate has bad feeling about someone? this should be illegal, being judged as guilty by a stranger with no evidence. a car can be used as a deadly weapon, when's the last time you heard of a used car salesman refusing to sell a car to someone cuz they had a bad feeling about them?
The government is doing all it can to tell me what's good for me. I don't need any individual attempting to do the same thing....'cept the good Lord and my wife....
"In general, the art of government is to take as much money as possible from one class of citizens and give it to another class of citizens" Voltaire'
The common virtue of capitalism is the sharing of equal opportunity. The common vice of socialism is the equal sharing of misery
NRA Benefactor 2008
Got a question for a couple of you based on an actual case about thirty years ago. Friend of mine was working at a gun shop. Customer came in and asked for a gun capable of killing his wife. My friend had him complete the 4473 but refused the sale. As soon as the customer left he called the local PD. The PD went to talk to him but he had already killed his wife with a knife.
So my friend was wrong for refusing the sale?????????????
Same for the hoodrat that wanted to purchase a Glock from me. He held it sideways pointing it at his buddy making pew, pew, pew sounds as he simulated recoil. Told them both to leave the store based on unsafe firearm handling. Should I have sold to them??????????
Same for the ones that asked for the cheapest gun powerful enough to kill a person. Was I wrong to refuse those sales????????????
A gunshop that has it's FFL revoked is out of business. Becoming a supply center for the gangbangers is a good way to get your FFL revoked.
Last edited by M-Tecs; 06-15-2021 at 03:20 PM.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
I have ran into the good ole boy attitude towards women. I had dropped some cast 45acp boolits off at the LGS, owner is a friend and he found me 300 pounds of lead so I cast him some boolits. As I was standing there while he was on the phone this dude comes in, looks at the cast boolits and starts telling me I wouldn't know what to do with those, women don't reload etc... friend who owns the store gets off the phone and turns around and thanks me for casting the boolits and could I do one more run for him(I did 250 the first run) so he could share them with another good customer.
Dude who was talking down at me was standing their red faced, mouth hanging open... he turned around and stumbled out the door... friend started laughing and said good riddance, that dude is always talking down to women in the store.
Ran into it at the range too, I stopped at the pistol shelter to shoot and the local police department was there practicing. They were only using half so I asked if they would mind if I used the other half. Got a go ahead so I set up to shoot, hearing them talking low about how women can't shoot and this is going to be hilarious... "we should go hold her hand so she doesn't shot herself" etc etc... meanwhile they were lucky to be hitting 1 of 6 shots at 25 yards...
I proceeded to start shooting, ran the targets 4 times missing twice(6 flip down plates with a rope reset, so 22 hits out of 24 shots at 25 yards) then noticed it had gone quiet on the other side. They were all staring then started packing up. One of them came back later and apologized for how the other guys acted, then asked me for some pointers. I gave him some suggestions, he started hitting 50% and in 2 more years he was shooting competition. Police training teaches some really bad habits, like arms straight out instead of slightly relaxed and at your normal lock up point where you get really steady.
It is changing, I see this behavior mostly from the older guys, the range I am a member of has 2 women only days now each month, and Thursday nights are also women only. Gets us away form the jeering and condescending garbage. Lets us talk gear that works for us instead of being told no that is not for women, no way can you shoot that caliber... I got that on the rifle range one day when I had the Vepr out and was shooting 7.62x54r. Dude was telling me that was way to large of a caliber for a woman, I should be shooting 22lr on the 50 yard range(I was on the 300 yard). Another guy who slunk off after I started running the steel targets we have setup from 200 to 300 yards.
I think that's a bit different when customer says he needs something that can kill his wife compared to someone wanting a hunting rifle taking about their previous hunts, family member hunting guides and such. maybe the sales associate should have asked the OP what grain bullets she's thinking of using and what velocity they expect from that caliber to see if maybe they might just know a thing or two about such rifle she's seeking instead of being judge and jury on the spot.
sales associate ignorance kind of reminds me of a time just about 20 years ago, went to chevy dealer for new truck. I was way past due for haircut, I was wearing old holey cut off jeans and a ripped tee shirt. no one would wait on me, finally they sent the ignorant new guy out to talk with me. they had truck I wanted on the front line I bought just about the most expensive 3/4 ton on the lot and paid them just about $40,000 in cash. the older salesmen there couldn't believe it.
you can't judge a book by the cover
there is a legal term that is something like
clear and present danger
a guy going to gun store asking for something capable of killing his wife I think surely does fit into that category .
From post #24 This lady really knew her stuff. She did a multiple handgun purchase and had a carry permit. I sold her two handguns and I was unaware she had purchased a couple the day before. Multiple handgun sale have to be reported but the red flags went up when we discovered to multiples in two days so the BATFE multiple sales paper work was expedited. Within 10 days one of the firearms was recovered at a homicide scene. Don't know the deals of the murder but he booking info for the straw purchase in online. The BATFE request info but they don't give the FFL anymore than that.
If you seem scripted, unstable or unsafe you will not be purchasing a firearm from me but has the case above shows some will still get by. Same for when a couple comes in had one wants to purchase a gift for the the person standing next to them but doesn't want them doing the 4473 unless it's their underage child.
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may-...s-18-years-age
May a parent or guardian purchase firearms or ammunition as a gift for a juvenile (less than 18 years of age)?
Yes. However, persons less than 18 years of age may only receive and possess handguns with the written permission of a parent or guardian for limited purposes, e.g., employment, ranching, farming, target practice or hunting.
[18 U.S.C. 922(x)]
Last edited by M-Tecs; 06-15-2021 at 03:57 PM.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
as a gun seller I guess you have to be wise to look for red flags a prudent thing as business owner but the story the OP reports is quite a bit different.
my wife is 5'9" and tips at 165 on the scale ....she owns 24 hand guns .....out of those she has 2 favorites , the S&W 500 magnum and the ruger blackhawk .45 colt.
she can hit a 8x10 paper at 20 yards most of the time.
oh and she can shoot either with one hand.
p.s. keep it to yourself about me spilling the beans on her weight.!
Nope sounding scripted and coming back an hour later are two red flags. Just a guess but if she had completed the purchase on the first visit chances are good there would have been zero issues. We have cameras on the parking lot and a monitor to view them on from the gun counter. Its a independent store and not that large so it's easy to watch the people walk out and get the go ahead and or money from someone in the parking lot. The ends any sale possibility.
Last edited by M-Tecs; 06-15-2021 at 05:01 PM.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
Never boughta gun at Cabela's Bass Pro. I have bought Bricks of primers at both in the past. But I will not travel 0ver 165 miles round trip to get fleeced by either of them. I will travel that far to shop at Sportsman's Warehouse though.
BP | Bronze Point | IMR | Improved Military Rifle | PTD | Pointed |
BR | Bench Rest | M | Magnum | RN | Round Nose |
BT | Boat Tail | PL | Power-Lokt | SP | Soft Point |
C | Compressed Charge | PR | Primer | SPCL | Soft Point "Core-Lokt" |
HP | Hollow Point | PSPCL | Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" | C.O.L. | Cartridge Overall Length |
PSP | Pointed Soft Point | Spz | Spitzer Point | SBT | Spitzer Boat Tail |
LRN | Lead Round Nose | LWC | Lead Wad Cutter | LSWC | Lead Semi Wad Cutter |
GC | Gas Check |