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Thread: My homemade black powder

  1. #3881
    Boolit Bub
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    Quote from Paramax55:

    As far as dwell time... I've noticed that it seems when my pucks are done, they are done.

    I'll put the initial squeeze on them and the pressure will back off within a couple of minutes.

    Then it will back off again one or two times over the next 20-30 minutes. After that, it remains steady - even overnight.

    Letting off and redoing the pressure would be easy to try.
    This, in just a few words, explains the process very nicely.

    Once the under pressure powder has settled into its most compact state it will not press any further.

    It just takes a few minutes at each stage of pressure to reach the desired end result.

  2. #3882
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleBuck View Post
    That's what I recall, as well. And, don't remember why. Which, releasing pressure is something I've done on several pucks, too. For no particular reason, but sometimes I'll cycle them from zero to 20, two or three times in two or three minutes. BUT, I'm usually tired and ready to get the pressing done and am not, or have not been, too high on letting them set. I'm going to definitely give that a try, but will have to make a couple to compare against that and then try to decipher the results. I really hope the time deal is bogus. haha Or that more pressure is king and overrides time. ha
    and heres me thought the change in pressure was just my 40 year old truck jack leaking back through a worn out O ring !!!

  3. #3883
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vettepilot View Post
    Just a little side note here. We don't want to scare off newbies with unnecessary complexity. The simple processes here DO WORK, as shown by hard data from posters to whom we are grateful. Whether doing screened powder or pressed, one can do it and enjoy success with the simplest of processes such as throwing a paint can of even remotely suitable wood in a campfire, grinding the 3 components together, and then either screening or pressing the powder.

    Otherwise, it's just the tinkers and curious among us here that like to experiment, and hence the talk of finding the very best wood, exploring charring temps, playing with formulas and methods, pressing techniques, etc., etc. This is all unnecessary to just go ahead and make imminently useful powder for shooting. It's just a curse us tinkers live with---> we can't leave "good enough" alone and are driven to research, study, and experiment.

    So don't be intimidated by our ongoing speculation and experimentation. Just make ya up some powder and go shootin'!! As Indian Joe is fond of saying, "If it works don't fix it!"

    ;~)

    Vettepilot
    I think I disagree with you
    plenty of info what charcoal makes good clean fast powder = willow, tree of heaven, paulonia, buckthorn alder, red cedar, there are others.....
    and what makes crappy dirty powder = hardwoods in general, barbeque charcoal, ... so why not do some reading and start out with something will give a decent result? easy for me there was willows out the window - but I also had a couple bags of hardwood charcoal already cooked for my blacksmith forge - chose not to use that because what I read here said its a dumb idea.

    ditto sulphur - I went in the ag supply looking and they offered fungicide sulphur - ten percent clay - not interested - garden shop has 99% pure - just up the street

    we dont see stump remover but greenhouse grade KNO3 is good stuff, soluble is easier to use than prilled but no big deal either way

    Binders - read a lot of stuff there and eventually conclude dextrin was the go - (redgum needs alcohol - a different process.) I cooked dextrin in the kitchen oven - couple bucks of corn starch on a tray - instructions are out there for it. Simple really.

    This is a simple process yes but makes no sense to start it with what we know are second rate materials - not talkin lab grade here just decent stuff. Nothing beats success like success - do some reading. If you wanna short the reading just follow Fly's posts through and ignore the rest.

  4. #3884
    Boolit Bub
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    Indian Joe - Vette Pilot is right in a sense and you are right in a sense. If someone is looking to make their first batch, any materials you can get your hands on will make something that goes "bang" and will "set the hook." I have seen posts here by many who suffer from paralysis by analysis and have never made a first batch. I was starting down that same path until I decided I just needed to make something and see what happens. I made some graded powder, and put it in some firecrackers. It went "bang," made smoke, and I giggled. I made a couple more and they were just as much fun. I made a couple more amd took them to my neighbor's house and we both giggled. I made dies, started pressing, and never looked back. The hook was set.

    Any KNO3 and charcoal and sulfur will make something that is fun. Even if it's just to impress the grandkids, I'd say start with a batch using whatever you can get your hands on. The progression to the better stuff will be natural.

  5. #3885
    Boolit Buddy
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    Yup, keep it the simplest if you need to and you can have serviceable BP!

    Some folks consider success as having a powder that will make their ball hit a target. Some want to have commercial grade or better powder. I think the key is for the beginner I know there's many ways to skin this cat!

    I made my first BP by taking the test charcoal I made from cedar bedding chips, grinding some horribly inaccurate amounts of kno3 and sulfur and charcoal together in a small bowl just to show my kids how awesome it is. It was so slow burning I watched the trail go up and the sulfur was choking haha. But I was hooked! And for some reason my kids didn't get too excited. I guess they're not quite firebugs like me.

    I need to buy my lifetime supply of kno3 and sulfur in the next year to make sure I have it in case it ever becomes hard or impossible to get.

  6. #3886
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    Here's my powder on paper burn test I did a couple of weeks ago just to see cleanliness and speed. Something interesting to note is the yellow halo around my homemade burn. I wonder if that is from the leftover volatiles in my charcoal since I cooked it at a pretty low temp. It was a much darker yellow but seems to have faded a bit over the weeks. I think it left about the same amount of black fouling as my OE

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Here's the OE. Important to note it wasn't the same weight of powder. There much was less OE on this paper and that's why it looks like there's less black fouling left.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Here's my grinding progress chicken scratch notes. This is my first couple sessions with pucks that weren't as hard and just figuring out the best grinding method. Top to bottom is the progression.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Here's the most recent. Decently hard pucks, broken up with wirecutters first. The too left shows the initial weight of my pucks going into the dehydrator. They lost 2-4g of water over 48 hours, depending on puck weight. The grinds are at the top... 2 very coarse grinds on the same setting, then 11 grinds on progressively finer settings. Then there's the final yield. I'll be testing this powder against my OE tomorrow over the Chrono!

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by HighUintas; 05-28-2021 at 11:07 AM.

  7. #3887
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    10 shots 278 grain .58 cal. PRB's, 75 yards. Sassafras powder, 60 grains. 1384 FPS average. Deviation 33 FPS. Rifle sighted for 100 yards. Point of aim dead center. 3 inch bullseye. The target I made from an old yard swing and some used cutting edges off my dozer.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  8. #3888
    Boolit Buddy
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    Nice shooting!! What kind of sight is on your rifle?

    Here's the link I mentioned:
    https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a150455.pdf

  9. #3889
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    Good shooting.
    Was that 60 gr by Volume or by weight.
    How is your weight to volume comparison to factory powder ?
    How clean did it shoot ?

  10. #3890
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    No that's not it. Looks like it would have good info though. Here's a link to the file I downloaded

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Wnq...w?usp=drivesdk

  11. #3891
    Boolit Master
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    Regarding my post on not scaring away newbies. I never meant to imply one should use just any materials. Clearly, I think one should use one of the top 3 or 4 wood types, and quality chemicals. I was hoping that would stand to reason.

    My only point was that it is not necessary to "go down the rabbit holes" that many of us do, searching for "more better whatever".

    Follow Fly's or Indian Joe's proven and simple techniques, use good supplies, and have fun. That's all.

    Vettepilot
    "Those who sacrifice freedom for security, have neither."
    Benjamin Franklin. (A very wise man!)

  12. #3892
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    Quote Originally Posted by HighUintas View Post
    Nice shooting!! What kind of sight is on your rifle?

    Here's the link I mentioned:
    https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a150455.pdf
    That's some long, tedious reading, but some was pretty interesting, also. Thanks for posting it! My sights are two blade. Flat, the top or first blade is marked 100 yds. Raised, it is marked 300 and the second or bottom blade raised is marked 500. They are all narrow vee blades. Tapered blade front.
    That rifle, out of the box, with recommended 60 grains, with a mini bullet shot nearly three feet high and three feet to the right, at one hundred yards. It's been a slow tedious process, to get it to here. My plan is to eventually get it to gong my 560 yard 4X4 foot half inch plate gong. That may take a minute.

  13. #3893
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    Quote Originally Posted by LAGS View Post
    Good shooting.
    Was that 60 gr by Volume or by weight.
    How is your weight to volume comparison to factory powder ?
    How clean did it shoot ?
    Lags that was 60 grains by weight. I would be lying if I said what the weight to volume comparison was. The only one I remember, when I did that and I have them wrote down somewhere, in reams of notes, was 92% of Graff and Son's Swiss powder. I don't remember which charcoal that was from. I would say either Black Willow, or Sassafras. Compared to that Graff powder, it shoots as clean, or more so. I swab every shot, when testing these out. And, have tested several patches and lubes. My good powder out performs that Swiss enough, I can use the same volume, and obtain similar bullet speeds; but all my tests since buying the chronograph have been 50, 75 and 100 yards, with 55, 58, 60 and 62 grains by weight, with either five or ten shots. And, I have ran out of the Graff powder and they have switched manufacturers, since I bought from them. So my 'factory baseline' may have to change.
    Last edited by DoubleBuck; 05-29-2021 at 12:22 AM.

  14. #3894
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    Yeah DoubleBuck. I got side-tracked needing to respond about my newbie post that made me feel bad as to it being misunderstood, but nice shooting and that's a decent velocity for only 60 grains. Nice work!

    I also thought your post on how to make powder was quite funny. I vote for it to be made a "Sticky"!!

    ;~)

    Also thanks to all for the research links! Some people watch TV, some relax by reading novels, taking a nap, whatever. I like to study, and build my reference library, on many subjects. All too often I go to look something up online, and the info is gone. Sometimes mysteriously so, sometimes because someone quit paying the web hosting bill. That's why I put loving care into my own personal libraries. And too I suppose, for TEOLAWKI...

    ;~)

    Vettepilot
    Last edited by Vettepilot; 05-28-2021 at 10:35 PM.
    "Those who sacrifice freedom for security, have neither."
    Benjamin Franklin. (A very wise man!)

  15. #3895
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    @DoubleBuck, I just re-read your treatise on making Black Powder.

    I can't believe I missed it the first time, but how could you forget to include the importance of moon phases, and only doing certain processes on the second Tuesday of next week??!!??



    Vettepilot
    "Those who sacrifice freedom for security, have neither."
    Benjamin Franklin. (A very wise man!)

  16. #3896
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    Quote Originally Posted by HighUintas View Post
    No that's not it. Looks like it would have good info though. Here's a link to the file I downloaded

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Wnq...w?usp=drivesdk


    HighUintas, very interesting read, there! I laughed a couple of times, thinking of my post from yesterday, and these guys. lol

  17. #3897
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vettepilot View Post
    @DoubleBuck, I just re-read your treatise on making Black Powder.

    I can't believe I missed it the first time, but how could you forget to include the importance of moon phases, and only doing certain processes on the second Tuesday of next week??!!??



    Vettepilot
    I know, right? I thought everyone used moon phases, but completely forgot the Almanac part. Thanks for the reminder!!!!

  18. #3898
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vettepilot View Post
    Yeah DoubleBuck. I got side-tracked needing to respond about my newbie post that made me feel bad as to it being misunderstood, but nice shooting and that's a decent velocity for only 60 grains. Nice work!

    I also thought your post on how to make powder was quite funny. I vote for it to be made a "Sticky"!!

    ;~)

    Also thanks to all for the research links! Some people watch TV, some relax by reading novels, taking a nap, whatever. I like to study, and build my reference library, on many subjects. All too often I go to look something up online, and the info is gone. Sometimes mysteriously so, sometimes because someone quit paying the web hosting bill. That's why I put loving care into my own personal libraries. And too I suppose, for TEOLAWKI...

    ;~)

    Vettepilot
    VettePilot, I wouldn't worry about your post being taken wrong. It was spot on. We forget that some are here trying to get the basics, and that we have trouble maintaining them. That's probably why they burned guys like us at the stake, in the Medieval days. lol.

    I had to edit this, to P.S.
    Speaking of burning at the stake, can you imagine the first black powder guru with an audience before the King? He holds a match in his hand, lit, and blows a ram hornful of the Holy Black, over it, in the King's face. lol While he offers to redo the stunt, the King and all his guards are scared to get near him. hahaha If he was smart, he probably lived. lol I personally think it was Indian Joe. hahahaha He gets back to the lab or a tory and tells his assistant, "It was only supposed to smoke and you just had to keep experimenting!!!! I've told you time and again, if it ain't broke, don't fix it!!! But, no, you just have to keep going, and now, I've blown up the King and all his Court and even the Jester is frowning!"
    Last edited by DoubleBuck; 05-29-2021 at 02:18 AM.

  19. #3899
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    Speaking of "Blowing up the King":

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_...ing_the_Legend

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbvNIaC3gKM

    The video is just outstanding. You can very clearly see the shock wave propagation. Purportedly, the size of the explosion even surprised the experts!

    Vettepilot
    "Those who sacrifice freedom for security, have neither."
    Benjamin Franklin. (A very wise man!)

  20. #3900
    Boolit Master
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    And while I'm at it:

    Amazing proof of the incredible lengths some people will go to for a YouTube post!!

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=de7xDMjAxZI

    Edit to add: By the same guy... talk about a "Short (multi) Barrelled Shotgun!!"

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wfd4w2cjlx8

    Vettepilot
    Last edited by Vettepilot; 05-29-2021 at 05:46 PM.
    "Those who sacrifice freedom for security, have neither."
    Benjamin Franklin. (A very wise man!)

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check