So much for Ruger's top quality

[Catshooter]

I too found Idaho45's post quite interesting. It meshes exactly with the experiences of others I have read.

Helluva way to run a railroad, that all I can say.


Cat

[Idaho45guy]

I found Idaho45's comments of great interest, for I worked in Engineering at the Newport, NH facility from 1985-1988. During that period my responsibilities were primarily as government liason for export and contract orders and I also supervised customer service, the police armorer's school and was the company's QAR who worked directly with the government's inspectors.

I was hired specifically to augment the quality program for contract orders from Mil-I-45208 to Mil-Q-9858A, which was a 3-year process. I left the company when there was no need for that level of QA anymore and the revolver contracts ended.

I was told at the time by my supervisor that the NH plant was union and a completely different world. He said guys hired there started at $18 an hour compared to my $12 an hour.

I saw Ruger QC first-hand.

I was machining sights for the P-Series, which was about to be discontinued. The process was to place the mostly machined parts, which arrived in cardboard boxes in bulk from the Pine Tree Casting subsidiary of Ruger, into a steel plate jig that held a large number of sights. I then placed the jig in the CNC machine, and ran the appropriate program. As cutting heads wore, small adjustments were made to the machine by the operator, to ensure parts stayed in tolerance.

My process did the final machining of the rear sight, and created the two dimples on either side of the sight opening, which became the "dots" on the sight when filled with white paint.

Upon inspection, I noticed that the dots were not perfectly centered on the rear sight opening; they were off to the side by a 1/16th or 1/32th of an inch. But what was odd, was that not all sights were equally off, while some were perfect. All from the same jig, on the same program settings.

I alerted my supervisor, who alerted Quality Control. They showed up and inspected the parts, inspected the jig, and concluded that the jig was worn out and only 1 out of 10 sights were improperly machined. Ignore it and keep cranking out parts since the gun was at the end of it's production cycle.

A year later, I was at a Sportsman's Warehouse and asked to see a Ruger P95. Inspected it and sure enough, the rear sight dots were shifted to the right by 1/16th of an inch. I showed my brother and the salesperson the off-centered sights and explained why they were. Both were incredulous that a company would actually ignore and accept such a defect just to save money. But there was the proof.

I have never purchased a Ruger firearm made in that plant.

[DougGuy]

I alerted my supervisor, who alerted Quality Control. They showed up and inspected the parts, inspected the jig, and concluded that the jig was worn out and only 1 out of 10 sights were improperly machined. Ignore it and keep cranking out parts since the gun was at the end of it's production cycle.

A year later, I was at a Sportsman's Warehouse and asked to see a Ruger P95. Inspected it and sure enough, the rear sight dots were shifted to the right by 1/16th of an inch. I showed my brother and the salesperson the off-centered sights and explained why they were. Both were incredulous that a company would actually ignore and accept such a defect just to save money. But there was the proof.

It's lame that they would decide that customers don't deserve any better than that but on the other hand, I bet they eagerly replaced defective sights when customers called and complained so, by greasing only the squeaky wheels, they are saving on the grease..

There are reasons unknown to us why Ruger's guns remain affordable, and for every complaint about their QA on a gun forum, if they read them all and acted accordingly to improve the product at every turn, we'd NEVER be able to afford them, they would be priced out of the market and into the same market as S&W and other more expensive offerings.

The money that customers saved on buying Ruger, can be put towards improvements like better sights, grips that fit better, cylinder throats and trigger work.

[Chill Wills]

This is an interesting read. Especially from Idaho45guy. A window to how things happen at Ruger.

[contender1]

As noted,, many issues can appear with any manufactured item. (Not just guns.)
And remember,, the company is in business to make one thing. MONEY. The guns are the means to that.

Using Idaho45's post,, about the "1 in 10" problem. Following what DougGuy said.
If 1 in 10 were off,, that means that 9 out of 10 were correct. Throw in the FACT that of all gun owners out there,, only about 15%-20% are serious gun people, and MIGHT find it to be an issue. Heck, the 80%-85% of the others most likely never shoot much or especially enough OR are good enough to know something is "wrong."
And as noted, at the end of production, a company doesn't want to spend MONEY to fix something that will just be more expense, over income.
And yes, if a problem gets reported, they can easily fix the complaint.

I currently own a Std Auto that was shipped WITHOUT the notch cut anywhere near the middle of the rear insert. The very edge of the rear sight has part of the sight notch. I asked myself; "Why did the MACHINE OPERATOR NOT catch this issue?" Now,, I know I can get a replacement rear right easily,, but I kinda like the "mistake" and don't need to shoot it.

DougGuy gets exactly what I was talking about.
To build top quality guns, you sacrifice time, and spend more,, and the product costs more. Or, you build a QUANTITY, on a production scale, at an affordable price, and stay in business.

Another thought, on the pay scale from NH to Az, that was mentioned. Unions.

Bill Ruger went to Az because he liked the state, the climate, AND because not only was Az a gun friendly state,, NO UNION. That saved him MONEY! Bill Ruger used to have a picture in his office, behind his desk. It was a painting of wooden barrels, overflowing with MONEY. He felt a person should be able to buy a gun, at a fair working man's price, shoot it a lot, wear it out, and buy another one. He actually didn't support the "collector" of his own stuff. But he did collect other things himself.

I have personally discussed the QC & return numbers with a Ruger executive. They vary by model. The lowest return rate, .04% to as high as .5%. Now, when you make 50,000 guns of one model, and you have .5% returned,, that equates to 2500 guns out of 50,000. While that seems like a lot,, look hard at the fact that 47,500 guns are fine.
And of course,, most of the time,, you hear a LOT more complaining,,, or the complaints are louder than the happy customers.

I can say I've owned well over 400 Ruger handguns in my lifetime,, and in all that,,,, I've only had a problem with ONE that had to be returned to the factory. It worked fine,, as it was a SR9, that had started peening the slide. But the function was fine. However,, I returned that one & Ruger replaced it with a new gun.
I have also had the privilege to visit one of their plants. I can attest to the fact that many of the employees are NOT gun people,, but machine operators. They do not always know or understand the issues SOME people can have with a "bad" part. But I can attest to the fact that if an employee does purposely ignore a problem in their assy station, they will be shown the door.
At the same time,, some of the employees are super good nice folks who DO enjoy firearms, and take their job very seriously. I was discussing a station with one employee, and he impressed the heck out of me by his knowledge, AND attitude towards his part in the building of those guns. And I saw similar attitudes in other areas too.

Remember, they now have a huge commitment to producing a QUANTITY of firearms to feed the hungry market at an affordable price. And if a problem arises, they will do what it takes to fix the problem.


Lastly, NOBODY has been 100% perfect all the time since Jesus left us.

[kerplode]

I own a lot of Rugers, and I like Ruger's product quite a lot, so keep that in mind that I'm not hating on them when you read the rest of this...

I've had quite a few new Ruger products with issues out of the box. Ruger always takes care of them no questions asked, and the guns always come back right.

But that being said...

It's disappointing that it comes to that, and in a perfect world, they'd all be right before the left the factory. But, the thing is, Ruger is not "Heirloom Quality"...Not even close...Not in the same universe as "Heirloom Quality". They mass produce a decent product that normal people can afford and they do it at high volume and for maximum profit. If you want "Heirloom Quality" you need to spend 5x to 10x the cost of a Ruger to get into that territory

Honestly, a good many of their customers probably never even fire 100 rounds total through their Ruger products. They won't know the difference if their sight dots are off 1/32" or if the barrel is a little crooked. If you've been to the range lately, you'll notice most people can't shoot worth ****. If you're already shooting 18" groups at 10' how do you know your sights are a little off or the barrel is over torqued? If you're not a gun guy and haven't experienced anything better than a Ruger, how do you know it's not supposed to "jam" here and there or that the screws aren't supposed to get loose?

So for Ruger, it's cheaper to just fix the guns that people actually notice faults with and complain about than to make all the guns right. I bet probably less that 1% of the guns with problems ever make it back to the factory for repair.

Also, the entire industry is going full bore these days. It doesn't surprise me in the slightest that the **** Ruger is shoveling out the door is even ****tier than usual.

[Idaho45guy]

I have personally discussed the QC & return numbers with a Ruger executive. They vary by model. The lowest return rate, .04% to as high as .5%. Now, when you make 50,000 guns of one model, and you have .5% returned,, that equates to 2500 guns out of 50,000. While that seems like a lot,, look hard at the fact that 47,500 guns are fine.

And since Ruger typically sells over 1 million firearms per year, that means that over 50,000 consumers received a defective firearm last year. And that's only the ones that noticed the defect, or bothered to return their firearms.

I wish all firearm companies were required to disclose their defect rate. It would be nice to have a verifiable set of data to go off of.

[slohunter]

I guess I'm lucky, of the many Rugers I own all have been flawless but the newest one I own was made in 1986.

[Kavein]

I’ve had several Ruger revolvers that needed a tear down and cleaning of rough edges. Other than that I think their quality is comparable to any.

[Win94ae]

My Ruger Super Blackhawk's cylinder pin would work it's way out upon recoil. Now that was a problem.

edit
And Ruger didn't really try to make it right, they threw the same parts at me which did nothing to fix the problem.

[downzero]

Ruger might be the most successful manufacturer in my safe. Every gun I've had of theirs is flawless. I pulled my 22/45 out of the safe a few weekends ago and it reminded me how much I missed shooting rimfire. If I were you, I'd get the gun fixed and it wouldn't change my mind one bit, and I'm the kind of customer to be bitter over these things.

[Hanzy4200]

I stopped at Sportsman's Warehouse this afternoon to see what they had to say before calling Ruger. They said they would be willing to handle the issue with Ruger.......if I bought their $40 "Firearm Service Plan" first. No thank you. Called Ruger when I got home and the lady was extremely understanding. She had me a RMA number and a prepaid shipping label in about 5 minutes. I should have prefaced the thread that I own 6-7 other Ruger firearms and all have performed extremely well. I did not intend to create a Ruger bashing thread. It's just incredibly frustrating to find so many problems with a brand new revolver.

[cwtebay]

I stopped at Sportsman's Warehouse this afternoon to see what they had to say before calling Ruger. They said they would be willing to handle the issue with Ruger.......if I bought their $40 "Firearm Service Plan" first. No thank you. Called Ruger when I got home and the lady was extremely understanding. She had me a RMA number and a prepaid shipping label in about 5 minutes. I should have prefaced the thread that I own 6-7 other Ruger firearms and all have performed extremely well. I did not intend to create a Ruger bashing thread. It's just incredibly frustrating to find so many problems with a brand new revolver.

I am very happy to hear that you had this experience with Ruger customer service!!
(Sportsman's... maybe not?)
This whole thread made me realize that I haven't bought a gun in over a month!! I hear a 44 Ruger carbine calling my name....

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

[contender1]

See,, Ruger Customer Service does try hard to help, and take care of the occasional issue.

Keep us posted.

[ChuckO]

And since Ruger typically sells over 1 million firearms per year, that means that over 50,000 consumers received a defective firearm last year. And that's only the ones that noticed the defect, or bothered to return their firearms.

I wish all firearm companies were required to disclose their defect rate. It would be nice to have a verifiable set of data to go off of.

A defect rate of 0.5% very significant and should be reduced, but 0.5% is only 5,000, not 50,000.

[jim147]

I wonder if they can write these warranty repairs off on their taxes like some other manufacturers can?

[downzero]

I wonder if they can write these warranty repairs off on their taxes like some other manufacturers can?

Business expenses are a deduction for every business:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/162