Thoughts on Progressive Reloading Machines

[Land Owner]

lloyd, it isn't that I'm cheap, broke, or stingy. You know about me. You know I have safes that are full from purchases, estate sales, and inheritance. It is, I think, that I am SCARED WITLESS to go to a Dillion. That I might LIKE IT TOO MUCH. That it won't at all be compatible with my complete line of RCBS dies, shell plates, presses, and accessories. That STARTING OVER with a Dillon probably is past, now in retirement, with the non-competitive and zero demand shooting that I do. I didn't find, nor look for, the firing range friendships many fostered in their lives. I had my own, anytime range to 300 yards, a single good time hunting and shooting friend (now passed), and I took full advantage of those in the time we had together. Do I need a better progressive than the PBII today? Convince me...I am thinking I am past my prime.

[rbuck351]

I think a guy should be happy with what he likes if it works for him. I should follow my own advice but I don't. About 25 years ago I loaded everything with a Lyman AA which I still have and still use for rifle and load work up. Wanting more speed I bought a Dillon 550b and it is fantastic up to about 400/500 rounds per hr. Since then I have picked up a CH single, a CHIII, two RCs, a rcbs jr, three Lee Pro 1000s, a Bonanza co-ax, a lee hand press, two Lyman proline jrs, a Star universal, a Herters #3 and a Lyman Spar-T. Probably I should have stopped with the Dillon and one of the RCs but I like tinkering with different machinery. The Pro 1000 is a tinkerers dream. It's the only press that I have managed to pop a primer with and blow the primer assy off the press. I bought three of these,one new,and they all have the same many problems. Yes they can be made to work with enough tinkering. I'm not really a glutton for punishment, I just really like a challenge fixing machinery.

[Geezer in NH]

I have had two progressive's loading presses. One for 12 gauge by Possness/Warner and a Dillon SQ deal B in 9mm and a swap kit for 38 special.

The Possness went away when I stopped shooting trap. Loaded over 200K by the counter with no problems requiring any parts. I recommend them highly.

The Dillon Sq Deal B is fantastic in both calibers but Gee they have gotten expensive. Mine works great in both calibers.

Now for centerfire bottle neck cartridges the way I load does not fit a progressive to me. I de-prime on a single station then wet tumble with SS pins and oven dry.

Next I Single station SB size most 223 and 308 then trim in a power trimmer by Dillon. Even my 8mm gets the same treatment except the small base part. All get a little chamfer. Add primer pocket work.

Prime on an RCBS bench primer. Powder is from my Reading measure and then trickled on an electronic scale and measure. Dumped into a case. The case is given the projectile and seated in the single stage press after seeing powder in the case.

If a crimp is to be given it is done in the single stage press in a separate step.

I cannot due that in a giving 1 pull per cartridge. Been told all can be done like that on the progressive's in several passes of the press but why spend the money for the press in the first place.

I have a lot of single station presses set up on the bench, one de-primes only, one trims and sizes, one seats bullets. Batches are done by the coffee can holding the brass.

A Spartan turret press also de-primes, sizes, expands and flares then seats and then crimps my 30/30 stuff. However each step is done in batches turning the top only to the next step of the batch.

I load many calibers none that need 10K per loading. If I shot reloads through the NFA items I have owned I could see a big processive but reloads through a gun worth so much is chancy. I always shot mil-surp through them to me safer than re-loads in most.

I did shoot the 9mm made in the SQ deal B in the Sten and Mac's as I had loaded it.

[Burnt Fingers]

ive got two lnls. I call them the biggest mistake i ever made. I bought them when they were giving away a 1000 bullets with each press. Add to that they were still cheaper without the bullets then 650s were. Well the bullets were gone the first year and now im stuck with those headaches. Primer problems all the time and one goes out of time about every 1000 rounds you load on it. Seems even switching calibers many times requires tweaking of the timing. Case feeder? Pure junk. I bought them for both presses and havent used them in 5 years. A 650 was designed out of the box to run a case feeder and they work great. The lnl case feeder is more of an add on. Nothing but problems. I found that with all the troubles and stoppages im better off loading on my 550. Its slower but runs like the energizer bunny. Id bet in 8 hours of loading i can crank out more ammo on my 550 then a lnl. For the most part those presses today are reloading room decoration. Buck up and go with a 650 (750 now). If thats to much money get a 550. Dillons just work and are what the press the others are allways compared to. Even a square deal if you just load pistol rounds is a great press and with its shorter stroke can pump out ammo as fast as a 650 with a case feeder. But for 90 percent of the shooters out there a 550 is THE press to own.

I spent more time fiddling with the Hornady than loading with it.

Livin_cincy, there is one bit of confusion in your original post. You do not have to return parts to Dillon. You just give them a call with your problem. They will help diagnose and sometimes even send extra parts that they find tend to fail along with the primary part. This is not to say that there are lots of failures; just an example of their excellent service.

Accessories for the Dillons are like automotive accessories. The popular ones are the ones that have accessories available. Not too many for a Ford Fiesta.

I have had to send a part back to get a replacement. It depends on the part. If it's a major part that doesn't have a lot of breakage they want to see it.

Everybody has their preferences.

I had a LnL and I had frustration after frustration with it, mostly centering around the primer slide design and then the ezject design. Initially Hornady was easy getting repair parts from but when the repair parts are out of spec and don’t fix the problem, or they aren’t redisigned and you get the same pressed in wheel that pops off; it becomes aggravating. Once the rep told me I used my press too much and the part had a wear that was considered being “used too much” and a regular wear item (base plate integral to ezject) and they refused to send repair parts without overcharging for them. I found the Repair part cheaper online. I repaired the press and passed it off to a friend of mine. He’s been happy with it last I checked. That soured me on Hornady (along with out of spec dies, broken and inaccurate scales among others) and I placed an expensive order to big blue to replace all my set ups with their 650 lineup and haven’t looked back. I had a SDB and 550 prior to the 650 order so I knew what I was getting.

I swore off everything red and replaced most my dies, but as the years have gone by I’ve let them back into my life some and use their bullets, some loading tools and Concentricity gauge.

YMMV from mine but that was my experience with Hornady

That Hornady priming system will drive a man to strong drink. I don't think I ever got 100 primers through it without problem. I had over a dozen different replacement parts and none of them would work.

My Dillon 650 priming systems work.

[David2011]

lloyd, it isn't that I'm cheap, broke, or stingy. You know about me. You know I have safes that are full from purchases, estate sales, and inheritance. It is, I think, that I am SCARED WITLESS to go to a Dillion. That I might LIKE IT TOO MUCH. That it won't at all be compatible with my complete line of RCBS dies, shell plates, presses, and accessories. That STARTING OVER with a Dillon probably is past, now in retirement, with the non-competitive and zero demand shooting that I do. I didn't find, nor look for, the firing range friendships many fostered in their lives. I had my own, anytime range to 300 yards, a single good time hunting and shooting friend (now passed), and I took full advantage of those in the time we had together. Do I need a better progressive than the PBII today? Convince me...I am thinking I am past my prime.

Your dies will be compatible with the Dillon. The heads are threaded 7/8x14 like all modern dies. You’ll still need the single stage press so the RCBS pieces will continue to get used. You WILL like the Dillon very much. Load development is a complete pain on a progressive press IMO. Once you realize how much you love a Dillon we will deny any responsibility.

[Static line]

Been handloading since 1970. Still using my Rock Chucker and Redding T-7. Had a Dillon 650 while loading my bullets for SASS. Sold it and would never buy another one. It put a bad taste in my mouth for Dillon.

[blikseme300]

I have had all of the major presses but standardized on Hornady for the most part. As I prefer to set up a press in a single caliber I currently own a mix of 18 progressives which include the Pro7, Projector and AP. Attachments include case and bullet feeders and 2 Dillon RT1500’s. Yes they need to be set up correctly but I’m capable of this so it is not a deal breaker for me. The exceptions are the 2 007 presses for single stage work such as short run sizing or decapping some of the rarer cartridges I reload, ie 45-75.

Yes I have other presses on hand that I may use from time to time but as I don’t shoot pistol as much as before so the SDB’s are gathering dust. Reliable machines all but not in much demand currently.

[Lloyd Smale]

lloyd, it isn't that I'm cheap, broke, or stingy. You know about me. You know I have safes that are full from purchases, estate sales, and inheritance. It is, I think, that I am SCARED WITLESS to go to a Dillion. That I might LIKE IT TOO MUCH. That it won't at all be compatible with my complete line of RCBS dies, shell plates, presses, and accessories. That STARTING OVER with a Dillon probably is past, now in retirement, with the non-competitive and zero demand shooting that I do. I didn't find, nor look for, the firing range friendships many fostered in their lives. I had my own, anytime range to 300 yards, a single good time hunting and shooting friend (now passed), and I took full advantage of those in the time we had together. Do I need a better progressive than the PBII today? Convince me...I am thinking I am past my prime.

ya im kind of the same way. I stupidly bought two lock and load prgressives and extra powder measures, measure bushings. quick attach die bushings. All the shell plates case feeder plates and and on and on. Id dearly love to toss them and buy a 650 to go along with my 550 but id about have to give the hornady junk away so i soldier on using my 550 for the most part. Figure at my age i dont know how much longer i will be at it and cant really justify another 1500 bucks in press and accessories. But that said if you ran a 650 one time youd want to toss your rcbs in the pond. So dont do it. There that good and if you really want the hands down best progressive made stand behind a 1050 for a couple hundred rounds. Every time i go to my buddys and run his 650s and his 1050 i need a roll of paper towel to wipe the droll off my face. That 1050 compared to my lnl is like comparing a pinto to a ferrari. The 650 would rate a new vette in that comparison. By the way your dies will work fine with a dillon. Only problem is some of them dont have enough thread to lock them down in the shorter rounds with shorter dies. But most of that problem is with lee dies.

[Lloyd Smale]

I spent more time fiddling with the Hornady than loading with it.



I have had to send a part back to get a replacement. It depends on the part. If it's a major part that doesn't have a lot of breakage they want to see it.



That Hornady priming system will drive a man to strong drink. I don't think I ever got 100 primers through it without problem. I had over a dozen different replacement parts and none of them would work.

My Dillon 650 priming systems work.

yes sir to everything you said. thats not even talking about the case feeder that would be more at home on a pro1000.

[Lloyd Smale]

Been handloading since 1970. Still using my Rock Chucker and Redding T-7. Had a Dillon 650 while loading my bullets for SASS. Sold it and would never buy another one. It put a bad taste in my mouth for Dillon.

if you cant run a 650 you should stay with a single stage. Ive heard alot of people saying they couldnt afford or justify a 650 and the idiots try claiming there lee press is as good. but your the first one ive seen that actually used one and bashed it.

[Static line]

if you cant run a 650 you should stay with a single stage. Ive heard alot of people saying they couldnt afford or justify a 650 and the idiots try claiming there lee press is as good. but your the first one ive seen that actually used one and bashed it.

Yep, that's my story and I am sticking to it. I know it goes against the grain and might ruffle some feathers, but I don't care. It's simply the way I feel and I respect how other's may feel. My experience with the 650 and Dillon's CS is less then desirable.

[1006]

For a new loader looking for a progressive press: Dillon 550.


I Started with a used Dillon SquareDeal B, then a used 550, then a used 650, sold those and went with two new 650’s. One case feeder gets shared with both presses-swapped back and forth. I initially tried to keep a large and small primer designation for each press, but now I just set them up for a caliber and leave it until I need to change it. Most pistol cases of mine use small primers, and most of the rifle loadings are for 223. So, small primer dominates the order of setup.

I still do most rifle priming on a Lee Classic Cast.

I do not advise buying a used Progressive with a lot of wear on it. The savings is not worth it, unless you know it is in almost like new condition, with limited or no modification.

[BK7saum]

I think I would like to clarify a bit on my observations of the presses based upon experience and a few comments by others.

My experience with the Hornady has been favorable. I do not run any case feed or bullet feed attachments. I have the basic press and load by hand. The LNL is set up well to do this with one hand from the left side of the press.

If I wanted to run a progressive with case and bullet feeders, I would not choose the LNL, but would likely go with the Dillon 650/750.

When I purchased my press, I knew that I did not want to spend $1000+ when I could not justify the added expense for cases and bullet feeders. For me, the Hornady was the best bang for the buck at $350ish and 500 free bullets ($150). So for a little over $200, I have a pretty good progressive that has always done what I needed it to.

I have never had any issues with the priming system on my press, except for some tight primer pockets. I believe I changed primer mfgs and solved that problem easily. The ergonomics of the LNL are great for me. I did add an INLINE FAB roller handle. As said, I load case and bullet from the left side and never remove my right hand from the handle. I don't load and shoot hundreds of rounds a week, but when I do load up a batch of pistol ammo, I like to get it done quickly. No way would I try to load my ammo single stage except for maybe some magnum hunting ammo.

For a progressive without the intent to add a case and bullet feeder, I like my LNL. It works flawlessly as a basic press when hand fed.

If I wanted a progressive that had all the extras, I would go with the Dillon.

It seems that most complaints on the LNL are with the case feeder and/or bullet feeder. I think the LNL was designed to compete with the 550 and that the case and bullet feeders are/were designed after the fact to work with an existing press, whereas, the Dillon 650/750 are designed around using the feeder attachments. These are just my perceptions.

[dragon813gt]

Bottom line is you get what you pay for

Sometimes you get more that what you pay for. The Lee Classic Turret is the prime example. It is not a progressive but it’s also not a single stage. It’s a good middle ground for those wanting to load a moderate quantity of ammo in a short amount of time. I use mine quite often because the turrets are setup and I don’t want to setup the 550.

Haven’t had time to read the entire thread but the OP left out the MK7 machines. They certainly had teething problems at the start. The customers getting all the parts needed was one of them. And I haven’t had time to follow the threads to see if the problems are worked out. But the design of those presses are a step above the Dillons. They aren’t for someone that shoots a box ever now and then. But for a competition or high volume shooter they have everything you could want.

[jmorris]

It is not a progressive but it’s also not a single stage.

If you have to stroke the handle once for each die, it’s a “single stage” operation. You can have a turret full of dies and even automatically rotate it with each stroke of the handle but it is what it is. Multiple strokes for each round loaded.

Likewise people that state the 550 isn’t really a progressive are also wrong. Having to index the shell plate by had doesn’t remove the fact that it performs 4 separate operations all at the same time with a single stroke of the handle. Giving the operator a loaded round with each pull of the handle.

[Budzilla 19]

DillonRL-550, two Dillon Square Deal B's, RCBS Rockchucker,( never going to sell that thing), Pacific 007? RCBS RS, Bonanza, and a set of old Pacific reloading equipment, scale, powder measure, press, but to only have one progressive press? Dillon 550 B all the way. Just my humble opinion.

[dragon813gt]

If you have to stroke the handle once for each die, it’s a “single stage” operation. You can have a turret full of dies and even automatically rotate it with each stroke of the handle but it is what it is. Multiple strokes for each round loaded.

I understand and you’re correct. It’s still faster than a “single stage” because you aren’t handling the case before and after each die. Like for like, four dies, you go from handling the case eight times to two. This is why I said it’s a good middle ground.

[oldhenry]

I shot IPSC starting in '80 & loaded everything on a Lyman Comet (SS). The RCBS Green Machine came out & I bought one . It was absolutely the biggest piece of junk imaginable. I could not believe RCBS would put something like that on the market. It had one good point: the case feeder. The priming system was a perfect solution to a nonexistent problem. The auto advance caused more problems than it solved.
A shooting acquaintance that was not a reloader heard about Dillon. He bought one & brought it to me in the box to setup & I was to later teach him the process. I don't remember if it was a 450 or a 550, but I do remember that I kept waiting for it to mess up & it never did. After the GM I was amazed at the primers actually appearing under the de-primed case instead of falling on the floor. I loaded .45 ACPs with abandon. Another friend called & ask how many .45 ACPs I had & I answered "7 gallons". The manual advance was beautiful: I'll never own an auto advance.

I now have a 550B ('95) & a 550C (recent): one for LP & the other for SP. My rifle shooting days are over so my Redding SS is used for de-priming. My AA is rarely used. I have 7 quick change setups for the 550s & I couldn't be happier.

Everyone says Dillon CS is great & I assume they are. I've never needed them.

BTW I like their dies above all others for pistol cartridges with cast boolits.

[Lloyd Smale]

Yep, that's my story and I am sticking to it. I know it goes against the grain and might ruffle some feathers, but I don't care. It's simply the way I feel and I respect how other's may feel. My experience with the 650 and Dillon's CS is less then desirable.

as to there customer service ill give you two examples of what you call "poor" When my barn burned to the ground i lost 5 square deals and a 550. Dillion has no bs warantee and one of my buddys jokingly said to call them and see what they would say. I called and he told me to email him a picture of the barn burned. i did so and called him back. he said he couldnt replace them all but would give me a free 550 or square deal. I picked a square deal. It came with a strong mount a 357,44 mag and 06 family conversions and three tool heads. Second one actually happened years before that. I was on ebay one day and a guy had a bare square deal frame for sale. I allready had 4 and for 50 bucks i figured what the heck. I called dillion when i got it and said i wanted to buy some parts and he asked what. I read off a whole page of parts i needed to make it whole and when I was done i asked him, how much? He said no charge they will be in the mail today. I told him "you know i bought the bare frame and im not replacing broken parts" he said "i figured that because nobody breaks that many parts." Only company in ANY industry that even comes close is rcbs. I bought a power trimmer from them many years ago and have wore it out twice and sent it back for a new power head and both times they sent me an entire new trimmer. Wear out your car or buy a car with no drivetrain and see if ford will take care of you like that???? How many companies offer a lifetime no bs warrantee on anything these days?

[dragon813gt]

Everyone is going to have unique CS experiences. I’ve never had to use Dillon’s but I have had to use RCBS. I’ve found theirs to be inconsistent. Sometimes they charged me for parts and sometimes they didn’t. The irony of that is that one of them was a rebuild of a LAM1 where I was expecting to pay and the parts for free. The other was a legitimate breakage and I had to pay. The kicker to that one was that the part didn’t fit, machined incorrectly. Ended up using one of the spares I had on hand.

My point is that just because one person had a good experience doesn’t mean everyone will. If I ever do need to use Dillon’s CS I have high hopes they will take care of me. But if they don’t I work be surprised either.