Read this awhile back, just thought I'd add some test data. I shot 30/30 & 308 full house loads, GCd with real runny veggie oil. Boolits cast with #2, 165 gr., Hornadys Non annealed GC, just dipped the base into veggie oil. 311 for the 20/30, 310 for the 308. No leading at all, 40F & 90 F. The oil can't seal the bore. When pulling goofs, GC come off in the neck & un annealed tend to mess with neck tension. Pulling PCd boolits, the un annealed GC still tends to stay in the neck. Annealing tends to increase accuracy, but BHN is much lower. I conclude that GC actually do some sealing, lube is a friction reducer. I've been able to push unchecked to 70% of checked speed with accuracy. I need to push the unGCd harder to see wh e the alloy fails, vs when the GCd combo fails.
Whatever!
I use gas check in my 44Mag when I want to use a softer bullets so they can expand more that way no lead in barrel and the bullet shoots accurate.
Here is a photo of an NOE 153 HTC through my blackout at 1700 fps. 50/50 ww/pure with 2% tin, air cooled. 16.5 grs 296 IIRC. Crimped where there is no crimp groove on the bullet. Notice the eroded lead pretty far up the lands and around the circumference of the crimp groove. there is actually a leading edge issue in this case. I'm going to try PB checks.
This one is a MP 311-235 shot at 1050 with AA1680. Some erosion at the base. Not as bad as the 153 but still there. Didn't have any lead fouling or buildup, so seems ok as is...
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Young kid to old vet: "How do I know when it's time to take up arms?"
Old vet: "Well, you grab your rifle, load 'er up and go outside........ if you're the only one, it ain't time yet!"
Actually the sub is worse than the super. Base is below the shoulder! It will cut the 'corners'. I see no evidence of problems in the crimp groove, just 'trash'.
Whatever!
It looks like the cutting along the leading edge of the super's rifling got all the way out to the front of the bullet. The pockets at the front of the crimp show there seems to be quite a bit of pressure getting to the front of the crimp groove. I have some PB checks I need to seat and will have some direct comparison photos hopefully soon. I'm getting easy cleanup and no noticeable leading with either of these, but am hoping I can tighten up the groups a little (or a lot...) seems the cutting is not evenly distributed around the base, so all that sorting for base defects is for naught. Funny, I started this as a cheaper alternative so I could shoot more. Well, I am shooting some but as usual, it gets a bit in the weeds trying to achieve "better".
The sub bases are definitely seated well into the case. Enough that I am hesitant to check them for fear of one coming off in a case. The supers are right at the end of the neck. There might be some exposed right at the radius of the neck/shoulder but I'm certain a check would be almost totally retained by neck tension. We'll see.
Thanks for the feedback.
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Young kid to old vet: "How do I know when it's time to take up arms?"
Old vet: "Well, you grab your rifle, load 'er up and go outside........ if you're the only one, it ain't time yet!"
I shoot a 145 PB faster (H110) in BO no problem and accurate. I use PC and HT, no leading, no tin. Never recovered any. Soft alloy can allow wide groove and gas cutting but yours look reasonable. 1680 is pretty slow (and dirty!) so possible the sub is seeing cutting when leaving the crown. Tune for accuracy and shoot em. Note: I've never gotten good results in rifle with HiTek. Pistol is fine. Basically changed back to PC as it is more reliable for me.
Un'grouped' were chronied shots.
Last edited by popper; 05-08-2020 at 12:48 PM.
Whatever!
I did notice some unburned powder and slightly dirtier cases with the 1680, but the 225 subs don't reliably lock back the bolt with 4227, h4198 or others I have tried. 1680 is reliable that way. I'm using 296 for the 153 supers. I have done a little testing of limits with 296 and that 153, and it looks ok up to about 1850 or so. I see around 1940 fps on your target. What length barrel are you using?
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Young kid to old vet: "How do I know when it's time to take up arms?"
Old vet: "Well, you grab your rifle, load 'er up and go outside........ if you're the only one, it ain't time yet!"
18" 1:10 carbine. Actually ran them in 10" 1:8 pistol but it's a lot to handle. 1680 & cfe blk are dirty. Pistol powder works good for subs but won't cycle action. H110 & W296 are same stuff. I've pushed the PB to 2150, no leading but HARD alloy.
Whatever!
So... first step complete. Punched .437 dia. Discs and formed them with a .312 die.
Seated base first, and they are staying put. Can't get them off with a fingernail..... enough to load now.
Seems like I hear everything from ]"they're the best thing ever" to " don't waste your time". Time to find out.
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Young kid to old vet: "How do I know when it's time to take up arms?"
Old vet: "Well, you grab your rifle, load 'er up and go outside........ if you're the only one, it ain't time yet!"
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Young kid to old vet: "How do I know when it's time to take up arms?"
Old vet: "Well, you grab your rifle, load 'er up and go outside........ if you're the only one, it ain't time yet!"
Well, I'm as confused as a termite in a yo-yo! I am thinking of casting .308 for a bolt action 30.06. I would guess that I need a gas check.?.
BP | Bronze Point | IMR | Improved Military Rifle | PTD | Pointed |
BR | Bench Rest | M | Magnum | RN | Round Nose |
BT | Boat Tail | PL | Power-Lokt | SP | Soft Point |
C | Compressed Charge | PR | Primer | SPCL | Soft Point "Core-Lokt" |
HP | Hollow Point | PSPCL | Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" | C.O.L. | Cartridge Overall Length |
PSP | Pointed Soft Point | Spz | Spitzer Point | SBT | Spitzer Boat Tail |
LRN | Lead Round Nose | LWC | Lead Wad Cutter | LSWC | Lead Semi Wad Cutter |
GC | Gas Check |