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Hello again,
As I mentioned in an earlier post, the Lee 312-155R came in a few days ago.
It is a nice looking mold, and it seemed to go right to work casting nice looking bullets. I was excited to try some of these in the K-31, so I sized to .309 and loaded a test round, and quickly discovered that the nose is too large.
So now the problem I am encountering is the same with every bullet I have tried so far. The rounds will not chamber when the bullet is seated in the normal position. This causes me to have to load the bullet too deep, and I think this is why my accuracy is suffering.
To give a bit of back ground, RCBS dies are being used, and I am full length resizing the PPU brass.
The prepped case goes in fine, as does a loaded round, provide the bullet is set deep into the case.
So.... from what I can tell, my rifle must have a really tight throat. Even with this new Lee bullet seated deeper than normal, I have to give the bolt a slight bump with the heel of my hand, to seat it. The nose of this bullet is about .301, and I see where it is being engraved by the rifling slightly.
Now I am thinking about the RCBS 30-165-SIL that many have suggested. But I dont want to spend money on another mold that wont chamber in my rifle. Can someone measure the nose of the RCBS bullet, and let me know what the diameter is?
I am beginning to think my Swiss rifle, and lead are not very compatible.. Maybe this rifle was just not shot enough to induce any throat wear? I really hate to give up on shooting cast lead in this rifle.
I am open to any thoughts that anyone has.
Thanks in advance!
LC
The Accurate mold that Dan posted is specked with a nose at .297". That is changeable but might be adequate at that size for you? If a boolit at .301 is lightly engraved .297 might slide right in? Sounds like you need a chamber cast, or a pound cast, before you buy a mold. Accurate will change the nose specification to what you need.
Wayne the Shrink
There is no 'right' that requires me to work for you or you to work for me!
Maybe I'm writing something wrong, but the problem of the narrow throat of the k-31 MAYBE could be solved by inserting a neck sizing bushing in the upper part of the Lee sizer: they are of all sizes !!! just then put a stop on the ram to sizer the bullet to the desired point.
Finally, the ram can be connected in punch to extract the bullet, to avoid doing it manually every time
Best bullet I've found is one of the sites' old group mold purchase. It a 165 gr. bore rider and for the life of me, I can't remember the number. Lee 6 cavity mold that is unmarked on the mold itself. Perhaps another member can fill in the missing info. With a scoped K-31, it is a, "fo-real", one holer.
I have an early k31 (1934) that I shoot the NOE k31 bullet in. This bullet is still in the testing process for me but it seems to fit and shoot rather well.
Ken
Take a look at the original bullet for the k31/swiss rifles. Long slender sexy.
I run into the same issue as you even with FMJs when reloading. Im got ng to try that little 30 carbine plain base bullet in my k31_for "gallery" type loads for 50 yard fun.
Thank you for the suggestions. The Accurate mold with custom sized nose may be a really good option. I will play with some other options, before I spend any more money.
I will look into doing a chamber cast, as I have a friend that is a former gunsmith, that still has a lot of his tools.
What I tried over the week end, was not real successful. I loaded up 25 of the 311-466, sized to 309, with powder charges that have worked in the past in other Military rifles. Also loaded up the Lee 312-155 SKS bullet, sized to 309, with the some proven powder charges. It was a struggle to keep 5 shots, under 4 inches at 100 yards.
I had wondered how some of you guys were sizing the noses of your bullets... Might try that lee sizer that was suggested and see if The nose can reduced just a tiny bit. Maybe even some other way of reducing it just a little bit.
I dont have any of the original ammo for the gun, but I have looked some of the original swiss ball ammo. I did not have any way of measuring it at the time, it is a lot different shape than I am used to seeing.
I really believe the throat size is the trouble with this rifle.
Well back to the drawing board for now!
LC don’t worry about seating the bullets “down in the fire”, they work OK as many of our .300 Savage owners know.
I have had good result with moderate loads of medium powders, 15-18 gr 4227, 18-26 gr 4198. Bullets 150-210 gr.
The fast powders are sensitive to charge, and the slow powders waste a lot of unburned grains. Shoot them over a tarp to see.
I started buying Schmidt-Rubins when they were just imported, due to their high quality, and remarkable machining which could not be duplicated for ten times the price. Brass was not available, nor ammo, so we made cases out of .284 Wlnchester brass. The only tight throat was on a Cadet single shot (no magazine) rifle, which interestingly had a three-groove barrel. Cured by deeper seating.
All together I had 1911s the Cadet, infantry long rifle, lnfantry short rifle, and then two K31s.
For functionality and accuracy they are the equal of any turn-bolt military rifle, IMHO.
Last edited by 26Charlie; 05-29-2020 at 12:50 PM. Reason: K31
"You will wantonly strike a hornet's nest which extends from mountains to ocean, and legions, now quiet, will swarm out and sting us to death. It is unnecessary; it puts us in the wrong; it is fatal." Robert Toombs, Democrat of Georgia, warning of the results of the imminent attack of the Confederacy upon Fort Sumter in Charleston Harbor, 1861
Let me begin by saying the K-31 is probably the most inherently accurate military rifle ever designed (although some would argue the Swedish Mauser is very close). I've owned over a half dozen of these rifles and all of them shot lights-out. But you have to understand these rifles have extremely tight barrels. Of all I owned and slugged, the largest barrel had a .307" groove diameter. As such, they require certain types of bullets because your average .30 caliber cast bullet won't work.
I shot a couple of years of High Power competition with one of my K-31's and the first bullet I used was a plain base 155 gr. FP cast of ACWW and WQWW. The load was first 6.7 gr. of Bullseye which netted 1050 fps, I later switch to 8.0 grs. of Red Dot (for 1240 fps) which also worked well. Very accurate load grouping 1 1/2" @ 100 yds and sometimes less. This particular bullet was from an NEI mold.
I would've stuck with this mold but occasionally during rapid fire strings the bullet would hang on the feed ramp and shut things down.
I also tried, but didn't actually compete with, the Lyman 311672 Silhouette mold. Bullets from this mold loaded over 20.0 grs. of AA5744 routinely grouped in the 1 1/2" range at 100 yds. Ultimately I switched to the NOE mold someone mentioned in a previous post. Looks like they even have a few in stock.
With bullets from the NOE mold, I initially tried 13.0 grs. of Red Dot which @ 100 yds. grouped 6 shots in 1 1/2", then 9/10 into 1 5/8" with 10 rounds going 2 1/4". But I had a 8 lb. keg of AA#7 and wanted to try it. 14.0-14.5 grs. of this powder and bullets from the NOE always shot very well for me.
Hope some of this helps.
35W
I want to add that I believe the single best thing one can do for the accuracy of a cast bullet is to size it nose-first in a push-thru sizer. I use a Star now, but my method prior to acquiring the Star was to lube using my RCBS and a slightly oversize die, then final size using Lee push-thru dies.
Last edited by 35 Whelen; 05-31-2020 at 02:38 PM.
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There are people who, for all the evidence presented to them, do not have the ability to understand.
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So I wanted to follow up, and thank the recent posters for their input. The advise to not to worry about seating into the "fire" or below the neck is interesting. I had always tried to stay higher up in the neck, but apparently that is not really a concern.
I have been busy with several other chores, like trying to catch up on the mowing, and yard work.
I did ditch my phone, and responsibilities, and slip off to the range on Friday, for a short time, and shot some of my test rounds.
I came to the conclusion that my 311-466 NOE bullet worked pretty decent, and in fact better than the others that I tried. I brought a box of 50 loaded with 2400 and Green dot, and both the 311-466 and the Lee 312-155 seemed better with a little more powder.
I bumped up to a max of 13 grs of green dot, and loaded some with 17 - 20 grs of 2400 and tried them.
Like I said, both bullets seemed to prefer a little more speed.
My aging eyes may have more to do with my accuracy issues than any thing else. I am going to borrow a scope mount and try out some of the better loads, and see what happens.
I really like this gun, and as was stated, I am going to have to learn to feed it the right loads.
Thanks again to every one for their input.
LC
+ 1 on the Lyman 311414 and 311413. The K-31 has NO throat, and the bore is usually .297-298. fat nose 30 cal. bullets don't work well. The NOE 30-180 works well also, even tho the nose is a little large for my K-31's. 18-20 gr AA 5744 stays under 2" at 100 yds with any of those bullets. Don't give up on your K-31, they are sweet rifles! We need to talk Al into a run of molds with .296-297 noses!
Hello All, very interesting reading this thread and yes I've just bought a K 31 so now in the "What mould do I buy situation" I see above the link to Accurate Moulds catalog design and just wondering if anyone reading this has bought and used one with Success, I have a couple of Accurate`s mould`s already and very happy with them, RCBS 165 sil also has my eye but they seem fairly thin on the ground
Cheers
Hello Leadmad,
I just noticed your post. I put a scope on my K-31, using a borrowed Swiss products mount. The summer was so busy that I have not returned to the range for any testing.
I too am looking for the RCBS 165 Sil, but they seem to be impossible to find. I suppose the Covid is to blame? I hope RCBS will go back to producing these, as they seem to be a coveted mold. Maybe one of the custom guys will tool up to produce one, from this design, if not. For now, I will wait.
I need to revisit this, and try to work up a load. I may re-crown my barrel and see if that helps my accuracy issues.
These guns are widely known for accuracy, quality, and are just so cool.. Most seem to shoot pretty well with about anything, but mine has not been an easy one to load for. Makes me thing the crown may be dinged, or it may have a bit cleaning rod wear at the muzzle. The Swiss military was beyond picky, with their rifles, but still its possible..
Lots of luck with your new rifle, and let me know if you come on to any of those molds... After you get yours of course..
LC
The NOE mold number for their K31 bullet is 311-195-RF-J1 and I like it very much It has shot well in my two rifles.
Skeet1, Thank you for the info, and I am a huge NOE fan, and may end up purchasing this mold anyway.. Al is a great guy, and very helpful on the phone.
However, I ended up finding the RCBS mold that I wanted, with the help of another member. Now the waiting game begins until it arrives.
The weather has turned to crap here, and its been cold and raining for the last several days. I primed, 100 new pieces of Swiss
brass last night, and will be ready when the Mold arrives.
Leadmad, Mid South shooters supply has this mold in stock, if you are interested in one..
The weather is supposed to get better next week, and of so and if my mold gets here by then... To the range I will go.
Hi!
Ideal 311414 is THE solution. tried just after the lee 312-155gr who dosen't want to chamber correctly. I use the 311414 with the same reloading data as the lee 312-155gr.
We really need a Ar-15 subforum!
311291 is a good place to start. Shoots decent in an '03 Springfield and my sons 30-30 handy rifle and 1894.
Shiloh
Je suis Charlie
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Hi Lead Collector,
Thanks for sharing info on RCBS mould you Sir are a kind soul ! ,I have however committed to Accurates 31-185 S mould and will have to wait a bit but looking forward to it arriving, I have been shooting a bunch of Lyman 311041 over 28gr 4895 thru the rifle and quite pleasantly surprised how well they did with some 2 x 2" groups at 100 yards so my K 31 has lots of promise, hopefully the new boreriding bullet will group even better
All the best of luck with your rifle and cheers
BP | Bronze Point | IMR | Improved Military Rifle | PTD | Pointed |
BR | Bench Rest | M | Magnum | RN | Round Nose |
BT | Boat Tail | PL | Power-Lokt | SP | Soft Point |
C | Compressed Charge | PR | Primer | SPCL | Soft Point "Core-Lokt" |
HP | Hollow Point | PSPCL | Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" | C.O.L. | Cartridge Overall Length |
PSP | Pointed Soft Point | Spz | Spitzer Point | SBT | Spitzer Boat Tail |
LRN | Lead Round Nose | LWC | Lead Wad Cutter | LSWC | Lead Semi Wad Cutter |
GC | Gas Check |