Evangelism?

[.429&H110]

Please remember that Peter wrote you must be asked before you can answer.
Try this on...
Most people don't need lighthouses. But if you are sailing down the coast at night and you see one, you are glad to know where you are. Not lost in the dark anymore. You can take comfort from your GPS, but the lighthouse marks the point.
And so don't hide your lamp under a bushel.
You are the only lighthouse for miles and miles.

[Bigslug]

Slug, your thinking is very narrow and constrained. God made man to have a will of his own. It seems very logical that a true God would not want mere mechanical expressions of worship and praise, but the genuine thing that can emanate ONLY from those who have made the CHOICE to follow and worship Him. But somehow, I don't think you're really after a real understanding of God, but only what you think is "a little fun" trying to promote doubt and antagonism toward Christianity and Christians. That's YOUR choice. You will answer for it one day, just as the rest of us will be judged by our behavior. I hate to see an intelligent person take such a route, but ... as was given to you by God himself, you have that free will, and can decide those things only for your own self.

But have you ever wondered why all the naysayings have been unable to counter, or even to mitigate the growth of faith? It's because atheism and so-called "agnosticism" are weak and illogical if you consider ALL the evidence involved. But you have to decide whether to take an honest look at these evidences, and you certainly appear to be very antagonistic against doing that, or of ever really doing that. I am sorry to see you choose as you have. It could be so different, and your life and attitude and outlook could be so very, very different, and you could be so very much happier and more satisfied. But ultimately, the choice will always be yours, and yours alone. I pray you will see the light before your life's end.

You know Bee-Dubya, my original reply to this thread was directed at the unwanted annoyances of evangelists, and you reply with unwanted, annoying evangelism. Can we consider my point made?

[Blackwater]

Nope. Not at all. Your grandiose view of yourself and your "opinions" is glaring.

You make a statement, and THEN expect nobody to counter it, and that everyone should meekly accept your word as the "last word," and the absolute truth? My, my, my! You sure have an inflated view of yourself and your opinions, and what their effect ought to be in any debate/exchange. But my friend, it just t'ain't so! Your opinion is your opinion, and nothing more, and your beliefs are your beliefs are yours alone, and nothing more. Who do you think you are, trying to determine everyone's "truth" FOR them??? They have to find their own truths, and it is rather obvious that you've never really been interested in truth, but merely creating a stance for you that is apart from that of others. I hope you enjoy being lonely, because I suspect you have a whole LOT of that in your future.

And BTW, we're all SUPPOSED to be here for the give and take, and NOT to just declare the end-all be-all answer for others. I'd have thought you realized that, what with your "superior intellect" and all??? You're no different from all the other disbelievers who have never really sought the truth. You just enjoy "feeling" superior to others. That's all. But tragically, you're not superior at all, in any way. You're just another lost soul who has never even wanted to find the truth, even if it was staring you right in the face. So be it. Even God won't deny you the right to disbelieve or deny. But really, you have to ask yourself a question if your mental acumen is really so profound, and that question is, and always will be: "Am I truly happy and satisfied with the answers I've chosen for myself?"

We Christians are quite happy and satisfied with the answers we've found, but you disbelievers and deniers are always showing how dissatisfied and "antsy" you are about the answers you've chosen to go with. Declare what you may, one can never really lose sight of these facts. You and all other deniers betray yourselves in so many, many ways! And you think you can hide your real intent and motivations from us! What a pipedream you're living. And all you have to do is humble yourself before the Lord, and accept the wondrous gift He has made possible for you! But you cannot receive that gift unless and until you humble yourself before Him, which I suspect may well be a chief reason you've never done it. You're simply full of fear that if you did that, someone might make fun of you, or that you'd become one of those "bible thumpers" that make such fools of themselves sometimes. Your imagination is the only thing keeping you from coming to the Light. You might try dropping your imagination, and considering and really delving into the REAL reasons for belief that exist all around us, including right in front of your eyes, and inside your heart of hearts. But it's still your decision. And yours alone. I pray you choose wisely.

[1hole]

Amen Black!

Anyone jumping into an ongoing discussion of Christian works and then objecting to a rational response makes me suspect the questioner isn't as satisfied in his position as he thinks he is.

Is Slug really as independent and certain as he wants us to believe? I mean, if he seriously objects to the presence or words of Christians he wouldn't bother to read or post here, or care at all what anyone here says. But, that obviously isn't the truth is it ???

Therefore, your actions speak much louder than your words so I (we!) can happily say, "Hang in there Slug, the Holy Spirit is clearly working on YOU!"

[Blackwater]

Amen! Some of the finest Christians started out as devout atheists. C. S. Lewis is but a single example. Maybe Slug will find the Truth one day, or maybe it'll find him. I certainly hope so. He's a congenial sort, or so it seems. He'd be someone that would likely be fun to talk with if he weren't so mockishly counter to Christianity. Usually, I just smile when I read his posts. He's looking for truth, and doesn't even really realize it. I just hope he finds it.

[Thundarstick]

Don't you think we should use some judgment in our evangelizing?

Mat 7:6

“Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.

[smithnframe]

Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition!

[Blackwater]

Thunderstick, you're right, of course, but don't we have an obligation to God and to ourselves, to respond to those who mock us, and try to persuade others that our faith is empty? Slug and a few more show up from time to time trying to do that, but like all deniers, they'll always be unsuccessful, because they can never overcome a certain knowledge that our faith is based on MUCH more evidence than they can even bring to any argument on the issue. They always try to "win" by limiting any considerations to the existential factors, but man is much more than just a collection of atoms and molecules gathered together in a big lump. He has more means of perception than science can or will accept. That's science's job - to study the physical things of this world. But man's comprehensive abilities allow him to perceive things beyond the mere existential, and this can be denied until the last day of earth's existence, but there are far too many instances of people knowing things that are unknowable, and doing things that were undoable, to give credence to any denier's wishful claims. There is more to this earth and to man than merely the atoms and molecules that make us all up. There is a presence here that we Christians call the Holy Spirit, and there is, we devoutly believe, a God in the sky and His Son the Christ. Deniers won't accept that, and that's their choice, and they and noone else has a right to decide that for them. Even God won't change it. I believe God wants souls who've CHOSEN Him, and not just a collection of creatures or souls that He controls like puppets. He simply wants to be chosen. What a simple thing that is, and yet, how revealing. If we choose Him, we get to go to Heaven and be with Him. If we reject Him, there's nowhere else for those to go but to be with Satan and his minions. All deniers have heard this, I believe. They just don't take it seriously, mostly I think because they just don't want to. After all, it may inhibit some of their favorite means of having "fun." What a tradeoff! They've traded Paradise for a little fun, that will pass away as soon as it's over. But everyone HAS to make a decision, one way or the other, whether they'll accept the truth, and the Love of a very loving God, or not. And some just choose not to accept it. I feel sorry for them, but there is nothing you or I or anyone else can do to change that. It's just as God set it all up to be, and He knows MUCH more about what He's doing that we ever will. I'm inclined to accept it as He made it, and gave it to us, and let it go at that. All deniers will be dealt with justly, but we won't have a hand in it at all. Judgment belongs to Christ, and NOT to us!

[exile]

"Now when John heard in prison about the deeds of the Christ, he sent word by his disciples and said to him, 'Are you the one who is to come, or shall we look for another?' And Jesus answered them, 'Go and tell John what you hear and see: the blind receive their sight and the lame walk, lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear, and the dead are raised up, and the poor have good news preached to them. And blessed is the one who is not offended by me.'"

Matthew 11:2-6 (E.S.V.)

exile

[pmer]

DING! DING! DING! We have a winner!

Hear the atheist out: you've got your life blueprint based on your religion, and it's working for you. You're happy/successful/satisfied with your lot, and that's fine.

Now there's a chance that someone might look upon your happy existence, compare it to their own, and say "Bob's got something that's working for them. Maybe I should check that out", and that is also fine. That kind of quiet, organic success is how such things should spread.

Then enter the evangelist who has no consideration for how happy/successful/satisfied someone else may be with their chosen life blueprint - it's not THEIR blueprint, so it must be wrong - knocking on my door proclaiming they have the answer regardless of whether or not I've even felt there's a question that needs asking. That's the kind of busy-body invasiveness that tars your whole camp with a very gooey brush, and it hurts your brand considerably.

If the Perfect Being wants my attention, he's gotta start sending less flawed emissaries.

I'm like Bigslug in some ways. I don't like being bothered. Someone trys to sell me a Dodge but I'm a Ford guy. I'd have trouble debating a Mormon that knocked on my door.

Not everyone is going to be saved and I can't explain why I got it and someone else didn't. When a believer comes to this realization, that people close them will die separated from God, it's a heart wrenching experience. My inclination is to try and fix it but the gift of grace is from God, faith in Christ is something I need to make it work. It's on display in the crucifixion one theif got it and one didn't. What was in their hearts came out of their mouths.

All a believer can do is plant a seed and hope it grows. The rest is up to God, the gift of not being able to boast is a two way street.

[square butte]

Resurection

[.429&H110]

Four years of Evangelism?...

Long time ago I lived in a cubical in Scottsdale.
Six foot tall block walls around every backyard, I am 6'5 so I just look on over.

Worked nights gardened mornings, was digging and the roof A/C unit next door burst into flames
(dust can make a wire fire or blow the rubber plug out of a compressor)
Nobody home, all the neighbors away at work, I should have been sleeping.
So I 911'd and stepped over the wall and shut off the knife switch.
Arcing and sparking stopped FD was there in two minutes CO2'd the thing with the cover off.
Firemen at 115F, my hat is off, how do they stand it?

FD left a note, I did not.
4PM the neighbor came zooming over the wall all mad
because I was trespassing, his word,
banned me from his yard, left in a snit.
Mad at me because his house did not burn down?
I did service calls for 40 years.
I have seen this type of person before and I am not much different.

But if you are burning in sin, or your house is on fire should I just stand and watch?
My neighbor thought so, but those Scottsdale houses burn like flares
and my house is too close: I might burn with you...

We have a responsibility to each other, like it or not.

[exile]

.429&H110,

Quite possibly the best story I have ever heard about our need for evangelism.

We are all burning houses until the Lord trespasses in our lives, are we not?

And how we resent being dragged kicking and screaming into the kingdom of God? (At least I did.)

"Therefore let us be grateful for receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, and thus let us offer to God acceptable worship, with reverence and awe, for our God is a consuming fire."

Hebrews 12:28-29 (E.S.V.)

exile

[Alabama358]

I'd have trouble debating a Mormon that knocked on my door.

Pmer - It seems perfectly biblical not to invite then into your house for a debate

1 John 1:10-11
10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

[Good Cheer]

Been a long time since I read the Book of Mormon and the Pearl of Great Price.
When I lived in Salt Lake City the only people who came knocking on the door to win me over were the Hubbardites.

[Nines&Twos]

The book of moron ....sorry..mormon written by joseph smith..a proven liar and fraud. His little golden plates and sexual deviancy is a slap in the face to our Messiah.
Personally I'd like a moment alone with Brigham Young and his blood atonement lies. I'll stick with the true Christ and skip the spaghetti western jesus.


Sadly, one of my dearest friends was raised a mormon and can tell you all you'd ever wanna know about jesus...he's got the whole truth down pat. .....he can't tell me what John 3:16 says and openly admits to never studying 'that' Bible as it doesn't pertain to him. Mercy Father, if it be your will.
I've covered his entire property with seeds and I just have to be a friend and pray...but thus far, it's been a waste of time. I've tossed many pearls into that pigpen. Some folks you just can't reach. We just have to show them love and stand on our faith.

[exile]

"The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, 'Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! This is he of whom I said, 'After me comes a man who ranks before me, because he was before me.' I myself did not know him, but for this purpose I came baptizing with water, that he might be revealed to Israel. And John bore witness, 'I saw the Spirit descend from heaven like a dove, and it remained on him. I myself did not know him, but he who sent me to baptize with water said to me, 'He on whom you see the Spirit descend and remain, this is he who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.' And I have seen and borne witness that this is the Son of God.'"

John 1:29-34 (E.S.V.)

exile

[pmer]

Pmer - It seems perfectly biblical not to invite then into your house for a debate

1 John 1:10-11
10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

Wow, I did a quick search and found major differences between mormonism and Christianity. Once or twice a summer they'll come to my door. I guess I never gave them a chance to get into their views. What a mess!

[Nines&Twos]

Pmer - It seems perfectly biblical not to invite then into your house for a debate

1 John 1:10-11
10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

If you add John's warning in the closing comments of Revelation there is NOTHING those people have to offer argument-wise. They are convinced Joe Smiff was a prophet .....sorry pal...John the Baptist was the last prophet...One might argue Christ but that's almost a statement of degradation.
They brainwash their people to follow the prophet, follow the prophet They all but deify a MAN. Sorry. These knees will bow to nothing less than feet of brass and eyes like fire. Joe smith was nothing but another deluded egomaniacal cult leader. A quick google search will land you piles of stories from people who have escaped that nightmare. They rule their people with an iron fist and do not encourage a man to read and think for himself.
ANYONE who seeks to control you in ANY WAY using the guise of religion is wicked and evil.

[Nines&Twos]

Wow, I did a quick search and found major differences between mormonism and Christianity. Once or twice a summer they'll come to my door. I guess I never gave them a chance to get into their views. What a mess!

Want a headache...start digging into their belief that God and Jesus have wives and God literally begat us through some heavenly mother. That is absolute sacrilege for Christ is the ONLY begotten. They are some nutty fruit cakes man. It's scary what they do to deceive their followers. My own sister buys into the lie....it makes me sad.