Ammo Accountability act

[MoldyJoe]

I just got an e-mail about comething called the "Ammunition Accountability act", requireing all ammunition to be serialized and all ammunition on hand (including reloads and cast) to be turned in or destroyed by July 2011. I trust the source, but am thinking this is just another Obamaitis. Anyone else heard anything? Joe

[Owens]

Basically it comes to this: It is junk science that is patented by a company. Said company is pushing the legislation. Can we guess why?

I came across some good stuff on this topic, but I'll have to dig around to find it. I believe that California passed legislation on this, but it has a clause that kills it if the 'science' isn't reliable and proven by a certain date. Like I said, thats the way I remember it.

[Owens]

Update: Info found. I got this from another forum I visit.
=======

Background,

In the beginning of 2008, a company called Ammunition Accountability

(http://www.ammunitionaccountability.org/default.asp) had/has a patent for a process to micro etch serial numbers on

the base of individual bullets.

Since no manufacturer had any intention of implementing this, all cost, no benefit, AA decided to hire an expensive

political lobbying firm, Gordon Thomas Honey (http://www.gth-gov.com/) to convince various state legislations that

"for the children" it was essential that this be mandated for all ammunition sold in a state.

It would allow and I quote

Ammunition coding technology assigns a unique code to every round of ammunition manufactured, and by recording sales

records, law enforcement personnel will be able to easily trace the ammunition involved in a crime and have an

avenue to pursue and solve even the most difficult cases.

Costs to be borne by you the happy smiley end user........

Bills were introduced in

2008 Legislation
Alabama
Alabama Senate Bill 541

Arizona
Arizona House Bill 2833

California
California Senate Bill 997 (Carried Over from 2007)

Connecticut
Connecticut Senate Bill 603

Hawaii
Hawaii House Bill 2392
Hawaii Senate Bill 2020
Hawaii Senate Bill 2076
Hawaii House Resolution 82-07 (Carried Over from 2007)
Hawaii Concurrent Resolution 104-06 (Carried Over from 2007)

Illinois
Illinois House Bill 4258
Illinois House Bill 4259
Illinois House Bill 4269
Illinois House Bill 4349
Illinois Senate Bill 1095 (Carried Over from 2007)

Indiana
Indiana House Bill 1260

Kentucky
Kentucky House Bill 715

Maryland
Maryland House Bill 517

Mississippi
Mississippi Senate Bill 2286

Missouri
Missouri Senate Bill 1200

New Jersey
New Jersey Assembly Bill 2490

New York
New York Assembly Bill 10259
New York Assembly Bill 6920 (Carried Over from 2007)
New York Assembly Bill 7300 (Carried Over from 2007)
New York Senate Bill 1177 (Carried Over from 2007)
New York Senate Bill 3731 (Carried Over from 2007)

Pennsylvania
Pennsylvania House Bill

Rhode Island
Rhode Island Senate Bill 2742

South Carolina
South Carolina Senate Bill 1259

Tennessee
Tennessee House Bill 3245
Tennessee Senate Bill 3395

Washington
Washington House Bill 3359

All bills died on a number of issues including privacy, costs, monopoly, no perceived value, no money for the local

politicians etc etc.

If you want to see how it all ties together, the documentation forensic path is attached below.

On the www.ammunitionaccountability.org site, in "Legislation" there is a "Sample Legislation" pdf file.

Open the file and at the bottom is a note section suggesting to contact the law firm of Gordon Thomas Honeywell, a

person named Briahna Taylor at btaylor@gth-gov.com.

I also looked into the properties and author details of the file to confirm this form was created by said btaylor.

Go to the law firms web site, www.gth-gov.com, go to Clients and there you will see one is called Ammunition Coding

Systems. (Since removed)

There is a link to the client at www.ammocoding.com. (Since removed)

If you look at this the website look and feel as well as the content is a direct match to Ammunition Accountability

and if you go to the Contact Us section the address is 10002 Aururora Avenue North, #4432, Seattle.

Next step is to Google

Go to Google and enter in "ammunition coding system" (type exactly, include the quotes as this tells the search

engine to match the exact phrase)

First or second hit should take you to a site called www.policeone.com and a discussion, dated July 24 2004 on this

"Revolutionary way to identify Bullets"

Second paragraph, first word, Ravenforge as the company name.

Next Google search is for Ravensforge and Ravensforge LLC

First or second hit for Ravensforge LLC should be Seattle Citysearch where we see that Ravensforge and Ammo Coding

are resident at the same address.

Search at http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/7143697/claims.html re the US patent office, ID US 7,143,697 B2,

"Apparatus and method for identifying ammunition."

Isssued to Steve Mace and Russel H Ford of Seattle, Assigned to Ravensforge LLC of same.

[9.3X62AL]

More of "The CSI Effect" attempting to impact law enforcement. Nice little techno-nonsense exercise, but it does Not One Thing to put a weapon in the assailant's hand at the time the shots get fired.

Not sure who deserves our wrath more--legislators, or lobbyists. About a toss-up, I'd say.

[44mag1]

Dang, I just got finished puting little #s inside all my moulds. and loging all the bullets I posses. Dumb me.

[Gunslinger]

I read about this 6 months ago when I did my Bachelor's Thesis. I think it's BS! A silly proposal whose only purpose is to oblige the anti-gun movement.

Imagine the following scenario: John Doe takes his .45 to the range, and shoots cartridges whose casings are marked with a serial number. In the dark of night John Gangbanger comes by the shooting range and picks up casings he later reloads and uses in a drive-by.

How is law enforcement ever going to control this?

[rbstern]

More of "The CSI Effect" attempting to impact law enforcement. Nice little techno-nonsense exercise, but it does Not One Thing to put a weapon in the assailant's hand at the time the shots get fired.

Not sure who deserves our wrath more--legislators, or lobbyists. About a toss-up, I'd say.

I'd say you're being generous in attributing motive. Looks like plain, old fashioned greed to me. As in, "This probably won't save a single life or solve a single crime, but I sure can make a boatload of money off it with the help of a good lobbyist and the folks at the VPC."

[Chad G]

kenetic bullet puller and a file solves that problem. What if someone breaks into your home and steals your serialized ammo commits a crime with it? They trace it back to you and lock your butt up for the crime even though you weren't anywhere to be seen. Besides being the dumbest thing ever to come out of an American company, who here thinks that people will give up their supply of ammo to someone else with no compensation whatsoever so they comply with this crap. What needs to happen is AA get in a law suit lose their butt and the company goes under, sounds terrible but they are trying to push something that would later become unconstitutional in that it holds innocent people accountable for the work of thieves who plunder, rape & steal, and gives the Law a reason to execute warrants so they can inspect your ammo for numbers if its not numbered we have millions of people in jail for something so stupid as that but murderers, child molesters getting out on bail because of overflow of inmates. Unintended Consequences

[USBP SW]

In the event that I ever have to shoot anyone, I'd be proud to sign my work, they don't have to imprint my bullets or cartridge casings with a serial number, I'll use a laundry marker and sign my name and contact information on the perps forehead. I'll bet the laundry marker is a considerably less costly alternative to microstamping and has additional uses to boot.

Just my thoughts on the issue,
Steve

[TAWILDCATT]

they dont have a company to make the machines and dont have a clue to how ammo is loaded.cart are made a speed of millions a day and how to keep records on 20 billion or more cart.
all a criminal has to do is get a revolver or as stated pick up empties he does not have to load them just drop them.and if they think I am going to dump my ammo there stupider than I think they are.who is the politition that will vote for this and be voted out.

[405]

Like so much of what is going on and has been for a while amongst a corrupted, dependent, dumbed-down culture.... doesn't have to make sense, just has to feel good.

[housedad]

It's the Clinton years and fears all over again. Just another magnatude higher. Those years were bad enough. With the NRA and others fighting tons of nonsensical junk legislation. I gotta bad feeling that this time around will be worse.

Every nutcase freako will come out of the woodwork now with some idea or another and profess that if you don't listen to them and give them money and power, then every child in the US will be dead from gun violence within a year!! The criminals will be your next door neighbor! Just think, the guy next door has a gun, so you must be his next target. Don't you know all gun owners are dangerous?

God, these idiots make me want to puke.

[JohnH]

I remember well having to sign for ammunition that could be fired in a handgun, Every place that sold ammo had a registration book, it was part of the GCA '68. You can imagine just what a great tool that was at reducing crime.

A relatively unknown but highly important peice of legislation known as the Firearm Owners Protection Act outlawed that silly crap. Write and remind your state represenatives that signing for ammunition is against federal law, and tell 'em where they can find it if they have doubts...

That piece of legislation is prolly one of Ronnies most unsung great works.