Religion is a man made way for people to be spiritual and adhere to the rules of a higher power. Just like there are many different languages for people to do one thing...communicate with each other, there are many religions to accomplish spirituality. It can be done in a group with an organization and leader or it can be done individually. Personally for me at this point in my life, my spirituality is a private and personal thing. I respect all others religions ( as long as it’s not telling them to blow me up or cut off my head) and I expect the same from others. I actually like to learn about other religions as long as it’s not forced upon me.
468,
I hope I’m considered part of the brotherhood here at “Cast Boolits” & I enjoy monitoring this forum daily. I usually keep religious thoughts to myself, but if this is like having a discussion in your garage, I’ll comment with the understanding that I would never try to intentionally offend anyone, especially my friends. I must admit that when I review the forum, if the topic is under “Deep Theological Thought” it’s an automatic skip for me. I opened your thread because of your starter “Can one be faithful without quoting scriptures?” I was curious about the responses, because I have a pet peeve of Bible preaching along with folks who put a “fish” symbol on their store window or business card. To me instead of implying “You can rust me, I’m Christian” it says "Beware".
Your initial thread premise really caught my attention as it could have easily come out of my head, but I could never articulate it as well as you did. Not sure, but perhaps ESP is involved here – LOL! I too was raised Catholic & attended grade, middle, high & college Catholic schools. I went to mass every Sunday. I went to mass daily while in grade & middle school. When I reached adulthood & became independent, the rules & hypocrisy of the church turned me off like a light switch. But I’m confident that I am a good person & am a tiny part of the positive in this world.
Most all of us (sociopaths & psychopaths excluded) have an innate sense of good & evil. So I agree with the way you answered your own question “Just use your God given common sense!”
"I haven't shot a 1,000 deer, but I've sat around a 1,000 Texas camp fires. I'm a happy man." - pertnear
The sacrifice of Jesus was to cleanse us of our sins because we aren't able to take care of that ourselves. The scriptures are there to tell us how to take advantage of that sacrifice. (not complex nor difficult)
Jesus didn't die because we deserved it, but because we needed it.
grit yer teeth an pull the trigger
Going to church makes you a Christian, like sleeping in the garage makes you an automobile.
Paul travelled to Jersalem to ask the apostles what the Gentiles needed to practice to become Christians.
That list was:
Do not worship idols.
Do not commit fornacation.
Do not eat meat sacrificed to idols.
With that said, as Christians we must use the Bible as a roadmap,a rule book,or our guidelines for living our life pleasing to God. To practice that we must be familiar with what the Bible says. Familarity can be Bible study and church attendence.
Obedience to Gods and his Word is the pinnacle of our committ ment to God. To accomplish this I think that belief in God and faith in God is necessary. These will bring forth actions or works in our lives.
God chose the sheading of blood for remission. We must belive that Jesus died on the cross and shead his blood for the remission of our sins.
Man has made a mess of rules and regulations to obey making them absolutely necessary before we can associate with their "brand" of religion.
As to attending church....for me it is beneficial.
The pastor at the church I attend is not very good. He tends to “twist” the Word or cherry pick passages. When my red flag goes up, it forces me to study the Bible to see if what the pastor is saying is factual. Many times it is not and sometimes it is close...and so I learn through the process.
Don Verna
Arguing doctrine or calling out the pastor is prolly not the point of going. The point of going is for the saints to gather. Even if I don’t agree with what is being taught, or a pastors point of teaching, if I focus on what I am there for, there is something to learn. If you go to get your weekly teaching, then your missing it... go, keep your eyes on God, and let the others do whatever they do. We can only control ourselves. I notice when My attention is on god, I hardly even notice the other folks and what they say or do. That is why I go. My teachings happen on my own in the weeee hours of the morning when all is quiet and there are no distractions...
Just my 2 cents.... what the heck do I know anyway..
Marko
Any technology not understood, can seem like Magic!!!
I will love the Lord with all my heart, all my soul, and all my mind.
Our assembling together, as in a normal church service, involves a person called to the ministry providing some king of lesson or message. If the congregation gets nothing from this time, or the message contains serious errors, an important part of the service is missing. Your time is in fact being wasted. If you are not getting what you should from the service you can find another church body or let the pastor know. It could be he thinks he's doing a good job and has never been given any feedback.
Paul tells us:
So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.
Some people have the idea that occupying a seat in church does something for God. The reality is that our time in church is supposed to do something for us. This is why God encourages us to "Gather together." We are reminded of God's goodness during the worship portion. We are comforted, educated or challenged when the sermon is given. We are encouraged when interacting with other Christians during the fellowship period.
Knowing scripture certainly isn't a requirement for salvation. (Nor, contrary to common belief, is living a "good" life.) But the Bible IS God's chosen method of conversing with us and we sure won't develop any strong relationships with anyone we casually know but don't listen too.
To the OP.
I share much of your experience. Raised Catholic, educated Catholic, then left. . . but now I'm back!
I was always annoyed by Bible-thumping because it presupposes a non-believer already regards the Bible as an authority.
Another thing that annoyed me was the namby-pamby image of faithful men. If you're old enough you may remember M*A*S*H with Fr. Mulcahey as the tolken religious character. Or, maybe the Simpsons' neighbor Ned Flanders. It was like the doctor was drunk when they did the circumcision.
As for following rules: Can I ask you some questions?
Do you think you can get to heaven without loving God?
Can you love God without following His rules?
What are his rules?
Can you pick and choose the rules?
Are there some rules that are Big rules and others that are small rules?
If so, how do you tell which is which?
Although raised Catholic, I left the church as a young adult. Later tried a non-denominational and then later tried a baptist church.
If one is a believer, he as accepted Christ as his Lord.
Christ wants you to be a light unto a world of darkness. This "light" reflects both your actions and your words.
This "light" from any "faithful" christian includes being ready to share the Gospel.
If you do not at least understand key points from the Bible, how can you effectively share the Gospel.
I am not good at the chapter and verse type quotes.
I feel that my church attendance eventually exposed me to "good preaching" (that matches up with Bible). This has been adequate for me to do my role (for the most part) as a member of the church body doing the "work of the church" (try to reach the lost, grow and support the saved).
A person may have accepted Christ, but if that person is not supporting the "work of the church" I would have are hard time describing that person as being faithful.
Bishop Anslem said "Testify to God, if necessary, use words". I think that answers your question, and from a Catholic Bishop, as well. The basic point is that if my life does not back up my words my words are useless.
Do I teach with Scripture? Yes, but only when the person is already believing and willing to understand further what God says.
Wayne the Shrink
There is no 'right' that requires me to work for you or you to work for me!
BJJ, great comments on Bible thumpers and TV characters.
Before I answer, is this a test? ...LOL
BTW...great question to which I do not have full answers.
Let's focus on the rules, if that's OK. To which rules are we referring? The 10 Commandments? Jesus' 3 Commandments? Implied rules stated by John in Romans? The rules stated in Leviticus? (the latter playing into your big rule/small rule query)
...and thanks for engaging.
Last edited by 468; 03-26-2019 at 04:41 PM.
Wayne, just my personal thing here, but I don't hold Catholic "elders" in high esteem. So I can't really fall back on something just because they said...
That's just me.
To the original question"Can you be faithful without quoting scripture?" I think about several people before there was Scripture. Noah found grace, God found favor in Abraham,Abraham paid tithes and Job was described as "perfect". All this was before the Scripture was recorded. So yes you can be faithful without quoting Scripture,but these people had a relationship with God. God and his angels appeared directly before these along with other representatives to guide them in their lives of service to Him.
Today our main direction is the Bible. Also our commandment is teaching and baptizing to persuade others to take up the faith. We must have answers " to convert" the unknowing ,unfaithful and unbelieving. Those answers must be Biblical based to be correct. So knowledge of the Bible is necessary to properly carry out his Commandments.
I suppose some people just might. I personally have never met someone who thought murder as OK. On the other hand, I have met people who felt stealing was an acceptable practice.
Paul talked about the way SOME people who did not have the Law did SOME of the things the Law required instinctively:
"Even Gentiles, who do not have God's written law, show that they know his law when they instinctively obey it, even without having heard it. They demonstrate that God's law is written in their hearts, for their own conscience and thoughts either accuse them or tell them they are doing right." (Romans 2:14-15)
Nevertheless, in order to have the most complete revelation of (the Christian) God, one cannot get away from the Bible. While God's power and wisdom can be inferred from observing nature, an explanation of his loving personality originates from the Bible.
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