When Jesus sees that Nicodemus is thinking in the physical sense regarding a man having to be born from above (or born again) in order to see the kingdom of God, He tells him that a man must be born of water and of the Spirit (in order to enter God's kingdom). He then says that flesh gives birth to flesh and the Spirit gives birth to Spirit. Is He saying that a man must be born both physically (born of water) and Spiritually in order to enter God's kingdom? I have been told that being born of water refers to baptism (immersion) but considering that He is saying "flesh gives birth to flesh" the idea of baptism does not seem to be what He is referring to. Thoughts?