Black Powder, How To

[ez4545]

Greetings, I read more than I post here and I usually find answers to most of my questions can be found using the search function.

I don't think it's a far reach to say this forum has some serious do it yer selfers here when it comes to ammo!

Okay, I'll get to the point.

Does anyone ever make their own black powder? What's the process like?


Bill

[2muchstuf]

It scares the bejeses out of me so I don't.
But my nephew does. It's not quite goex but it will do in a pinch.
Google up black powder or making black powder. Ther seems to be alot about it there, as I recall.

2

[August]

When they used to have chemistry sets for kids (a long time ago), I mixed some up. It would barely burn, let alone explode. But, the basic chemistry is simple enough.

[John Boy]

Bill - a fella from AK asked the same Q a couple of days ago and here was my reply:
In addition, if you never have made original gunpowder, you might want to buy this book too ... http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0873646754

Does anyone experiment with making their own?

Pete, I did in my younger years - pre 15 year's old ... with mediocre and bad results. If I had known then what I have learned in later life maybe the results would have been better. Even when I ground my powder with a mortar and pestle - dry: ignition took place in my bedroom, smoke all over creation, singed eyebrows-hair and had trouble seeing for a couple of days.

Anyway, some later life suggestions:
* Use thin dried branches from the alder wood family (should be plenty in AK unless the snow shoes haven't eaten it all) for your charcoal with no bark. Start accumulating the branches before Spring because there will be more sugar in the wood
* You will need a temperature probe for the retort so you don't burn off the fixed carbon in the wood. 300 to 320 degrees Centigrade for 8 hours gives a fixed carbon content of about 65% in the finished charcoal
* Presume you are going to use a ball mill, unless you find a 5 ton wheel mill here in the States. (If you can find an antique sharpening wheel, it would make a fine mini wheel mill). Be sure to mix the saltpeter - charcoal and sulfur ... MOIST
* You will need some sieve screens: 20 and 30 mesh should do you to sift the cake. The larger grains and the fines can be remixed again to make another cake
(You may want to read this post for your FFg and FFFg ratios ... http://shilohrifle.com/forums/viewto...ighlight=sieve )
* Expect the density of the powder to be 50% less dense than commercial powder
And make your powder outdoors for safety's sake

Good Luck - Have Fun and Let Us Know How It Shoots - especially the velocities

[Jim]

EZ,
Trust me, it's more trouble than it's worth and the likelyhood of a disaster is very high. If you wanna do it yerself just for the h311 of it, try making explosive incindiary devices. It's safer. If you're trying to save money, you can buy bulk loads of BP very reasonably.

[4t5]

I have made my own BP before. Unless you need a particular granulation for something special, it is not worth the effort. After a few tries, I was able to whip up some that was about equivalent to commercially made BP.

Disclaimer: If you blow yourself up, it ain't my fault. Please do extensive research before attempting to try this. This is not meant to be a complete tutorial, just my own personal experience. YMMV.

Here is a slightly simplified version of how. Fertilizer grade chemicals work just fine. The secret is in the charcoal. If you use poor charcoal, you will be lucky to get the bullet past the muzzle. I take a mixture of chemicals and put it in a ball mill. A small rock tumbler with lead balls works, but I can only do small batches and it takes a good while to mill a batch, like 24 hrs. After that, I take a measured amount of powder, now called "meal powder", mix in a tiny bit of water, and press it into what looks like a hockey puck, trying to achieve a density close to 1.7g/cc3. After drying, I crush the pucks to bits and screen it to the desired granulation. I mostly made "2FA" which is 4-12 mesh. For sporting powders like 2Fg, the grain size is 16 - 30mesh, and 3Fg is 20 - 50.

There is a whale of a lot more to know about this. There are several other methods that can be used. A good place to start would be Passfire (http://www.passfire.com), probably the best pyrotechnics forum on the net.

[RMulhern]

Let me put it to you like this.......anyone wishing to make their own BLACKPOWDER......is possibly one step below an IDIOT!!

Nuff said!

[45nut]

Feelings about the intelligence driving the quest aside, I hope Linstrum chimes in here.

I would hope we do not become so scared of individual attempts as basic chemistry outside a laboratory that another 1,000 laws are written to block them.

Certainly everyone is not set out to be successful, but there are individuals about that are more than qualified and calling them idiots is ,,well,, idiotic.

Murphy's Law and Darwin's yearly list point out the folly well enough when doing "dangerous" things, and daily activities gone bad claim many, but those qualified and careful are the ones that brought us out of the forests and onto the highways that claim even more lives than basic chemistry.

Going blindly into any activity is indeed "idiotic", but there are reasons and ideas out there that have yet to be proven..and the people that make them everyday reality are often called fools at first. Please respect the reason we have "reason".

[RMulhern]

"and the people that make them everyday"

Yeah.....those are the 'people'....that get BLOWN UP on occasions......and they're PROFESSIONALS......supposedly!!

My statement stands: The 'average Joe'....is ONE STEP BELOW and IDIOT in any endeavor to make BLACKPOWDER!!

[wills]

http://www.skylighter.com/mall/chemicals.asp?Sort=A

If you dont make your own charcoal, which is an art itself, from what i understand, i think this place ma have the grade you need.

[northmn]

There was a recipe on another site about making "Grandma's Homemade Red Powder" People used to make their own, especially in the more remote areas. It was usable, I guess. Likely an individual in an area would make powder and trade it for other things. I think one of the Foxfire books had a recipe. One of the reasons Americans used longrifles, was supposidly to burn the lower grades of powder better. Some of the back to our roots types may do so, but I think I would save homemades use in a ML and use the better stuff in a cartridge. AS to the more dangerous aspects of making it, I believe one secret is to do a small bit at a time to avoid a major explosion. You can crunch up coarse powder to make fine powder but it is wise to do a little at a time.

Northmn

[Catshooter]

FPMIII,

Possibly you miss the point that 45nut was so very gently trying make. This site is not Glocktalk or ARF. We don't call each other idiots, regardless of may seem to be a good and adequite reason.

Here, we try to act as if we were all in the same room, sharing our favorite beverages and just discussing things in an effort either share knowledge or gain it.

Sometimes there are posts that one really wants to lash out at, even here. The best action is to hit 'Backspace' and move on to another. If you look at the other 10 responses you'll see what I mean.

Just trying to help.


Cat

[45nut]

Thank You for that, I was trying to defuse instead of inflame. Guess my point was overlooked.

[45nut]

Oh,, Lets try not to use terms against our own that the anti-gun types are using....you can count on many of them insisting we are idiots for wanting to use something as potentially dangerous as a gun on our own, without supervision.

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety deserve neither Liberty nor Safety"

Are we all ready to lay down and meekly accept the terms for surrender the anti-gunners want to force upon us because some of us may be hurt in the process? Or do we choose to live and walk as free men knowing danger lurks on the streets? In our own homes, in pursuance of "dangerous" things....?

[montana_charlie]

There's a certain amount of risk associated with almost everything we do. It's really 'idiotic' how some people, companies, and government agencies try so hard to eliminate even the slightest risk imaginable. It leaves people thinking they are 'totally protected'...and prone to sue somebody when they burn their fingers.

It's more reasonable to assume the responsibility for whatever risks life exposes you to, and do your best to minimize them. But, it's not realistic to think you can avoid risk, altogether.
On the other hand, there is the need (in some of us) to be self-reliant to varying degrees.

In the pursuit of accomplishing some desired task without calling in a high-priced expert, we may decide to 'make do' - using our own native intelligence and ingenuity.
While I don't have a pressing desire to make black powder, I would probably be seen as an 'idiot' by many...if they knew about the other predicaments I willingly get myself into.
CM

[No_1]

EZ,

Good question. When I was young I found the directions for black powder. Charcoal, sulfur and saltpeter I believe it was. When I got home from school (yep, learned it there in junior high) I looked in my brothers chemistry set and found 2 of the 3 ingredients. A trip to the garage found some charcoal that we use in the grill. I ground that up real fine with a hammer (real technical right?) then mixed all the stuff together. I found a piece of pipe but only 1 pipe cap so I stuffed it full. I stuck it down in the yard then held a match to it. That thing burned for maybe 5 minutes. The pipe turned red hot. Good thing I never found another cap or I might be typing a lot slower now. Anyway. It can be done but as other have indicated, it is easier bought.

FPMIII,
Chill out. Diplomacy is learning to use the correct words. Instead of saying someone is one step below being an idiot maybe you could have said "it seems pretty crazy to make it because ...".

It appears from other post that you do have some experience with long range BP shooting. Maybe sharing a story with the gentleman that is asking would go a lot better AND as far as I can tell he did not ask for directions in making the stuff, just was asking what the process was.

Robert

[ez4545]

WOWZA, I didn't intend to set off a firestorm here! It was a curiosity driven question and nothing more.

The folks here fire form cases, of course cast own our booolits, swage, use military surplus and pulldown powder and experiment with finding the best hand loads everyday. Others make their own sizing dies and convert old vetterli rim fire rifles (my dream rifle one day by the way), etc etc.

It had occurred to me that someone here might actually make their own black powder.

I can get the graff and sons powder for about 12 bucks a pound and I don't use enough to justify the costs to set up to make any. I'm way to busy trying to chase down sources of wheel weights and soft lead anyway.

Thanks to those that took this post as it was intended and answered!

Merry Christmas to all!!!!

Bill

[Catshooter]

ez,

You made no mistakes here.

I and two friends made probably upwards of five pounds of the Holy Black. Of course we knew nothing of safety or any technical knowedge of how to and how not to. We grabbed charcoal out of the fireplace. Sulphur and salt peter from the local drug store.

It worked well enough that about one ounce packed into a pill bottle and buried about ten inches underneath a pear tree shook about a hundred pears off the tree when it went off.

Our biggest challenge was fuses! We had to make our own, couldn't find any anywhere. This was '63 - '64, I was ten or so. Wasn't until I was 25 that I found out your supposed to make it damp!


Cat

[rhead]

Keep everything wet until the sieving process. Grind the sulfur and charcoal separately as finely as possible. (That is the part where GOEX and Co, have the big advanatage, they have access to HEAVY rollers). Make your own charcoal. Use willow or alder, debarked, first year growth. Google for more complete directions.
The product will be inferior to the better commercial grades but a lot better than throwing rocks. It will not be cost effective but it could become so in the future.
Thank God for all the IDIOTS who paved the roads of progress by doing the dangerous and difficult things to make todays lifestyle possible.
"Don't go in that cave Og, its dark in there."
"Stay away from that fire, you will burn yourself."
"Only an idiot would catch a wild cow, pull on them things hanging off her belly and drink whatever comes out."
my hat is off to the first man who saw a raw oyrster and wondered "I wonder what that tastes like?"

[No_1]

my hat is off to the first man who saw a raw oyrster and wondered "I wonder what that tastes like?"

AMEN! to that one and also the person who perfected oyster farms. I can now get them year round

Robert