I was looking at a .450 Marlin barrel for my Savage. I'd like a .45-70 or .444 Marlin equivalent in a bolt gun.
I was looking at a .450 Marlin barrel for my Savage. I'd like a .45-70 or .444 Marlin equivalent in a bolt gun.
I think .450 Marlin brass is likely even more rare than .444 brass.
olDuece's .44-06 is basically a .444 rimless long. Lots of brass for that or the .308 version. Only downside is headspacing on the case mouth and I'm not sure that is much of a downside. Lots of cartridges headspace on the case mouth.
Alternately .458 x 2" is an easy conversion too and lots of belted brass around in that head size.
.45-70 has been done in Siamese Mausers and Lee Enfields but I doubt it would fit the Savage action easily.
I'm kinda liking the idea of .444 rimless myself. Another nice one I think would be to open up .223 brass to straight wall and make rimless .357 Mag... a little off thread topic.
These CVA's are looking nicer and nicer. I might have to find room for one in the gun safe.
Yep, a .458 WM is an option too for a long action. Don't really care how rare the cases are. A hundred would do for me for life.
Don't like the idea of headspacing on the case mouth for rifles, especially push feed type.
Yeah, .458 x 2" or .458 Win would both be good choices and common brass.
I get a bit stuck on the "available brass" bit but you are right. Once cartridges are made or purchased they will have a long life.
I just don't like stuff that is hard to get and .444 brass and .450 marlin brass are not too common... around here anyway.
.458 x 2" could be made from about any standard belted round and while .458 Win might be larger than most need, if it fits the action it can be downloaded for cast boolits and factory brass is readily available.
I have never had a gun chambered for a round that headspaces on the case mouth but there are lots around ~ .450 Bushmaster being a recent and pretty popular one. If brass is thick then it should be no problem but thin brass might just present some issues.
IMHO, rimmed cases are for single shots/doubles and levers. Bolt and semi-auto guns are for rimless, necked or belted.
OlDeuce,
wasn't there somebody, i think he is or was a top guy at noe or accurate molds, that did a 444-06 in a bolt gun?
then again, i could be wrong!!!
heres a few, google 444 marlin rimless
http://www.rubiconownersforum.com/fo...44-marlin.html
http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/44...ess-444-a.html
i found the name of the guy who did a 444 marlin rimless, it was walt melander, he used to president of nei molds.
I agree that single shots should shoot rimmed brass. It just seems to fit.
Maybe it is pure luck that my 2 best shooters are the .357mag and the .444marlin.
Going to have to figure out how to get a Handi rifle in .32SW Long one of these days too.
Yeah its rimmed. And quiet.
I don't disagree that any action type can fire a rimmed or rimless equally well. It is just a hangup for me.
And then there are the partly rimmed or rebated rimless
Not sure about the Savage bolt face.
If a belted cartridge will fit then certainly a small rim will fit but I don't know about .444 diameter rim. No experience there.
.444, .303 British or .30-40 Krag could be used as a parent cartridge, trimmed and blown out as required then rims turned down but that would be a lot of work.
The Siamese Mauser and Lee Enfields were designed for rimmed cartridges as were the 7.62 x 54's so fairly easy conversions for those.
Single shots should also be easy.
In a bolt gun the cartridge OAL would be more important than with a bottleneck cartridge in the sense that on overlength cartridge could be chambered resulting in "crimping" the cartridge hard into the boolit/bullet causing in high pressure. So consistent/correct cartridge length would be a little more important... but again, there are a number of cartridges that do headspace on the case mouth so...?
Just my thoughts.
Longbow
Lee uses the same shell holder as a 44 mag, RCBS uses a separate holder and Lyman uses the same as a 44-40
http://www.handloads.com/misc/shellholders.asp
.44 Rhino was something like 445 Supermag and formed from .30-40 Krag brass shortened and blown out but I'm thinking the head size is a bit smaller than .444 Marlin so the .444 chamber is likely too large for .30-40 Krag or .303 British to be used as brass for .444. So not too surprising that cases might fail when fireformed in a .444 chamber. You'd need a smaller chamber reamer for those to make a wildcat. In fact my understanding is that .30-40 Krag is slightly larger at the head than .303 British but I don't have info in front of me right now.
.303 British has been blown out to .40+ caliber and I believe up to .44 so I have to think that .30-40 Krag has too. But again in a tighter chamber than .444.
BP | Bronze Point | IMR | Improved Military Rifle | PTD | Pointed |
BR | Bench Rest | M | Magnum | RN | Round Nose |
BT | Boat Tail | PL | Power-Lokt | SP | Soft Point |
C | Compressed Charge | PR | Primer | SPCL | Soft Point "Core-Lokt" |
HP | Hollow Point | PSPCL | Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" | C.O.L. | Cartridge Overall Length |
PSP | Pointed Soft Point | Spz | Spitzer Point | SBT | Spitzer Boat Tail |
LRN | Lead Round Nose | LWC | Lead Wad Cutter | LSWC | Lead Semi Wad Cutter |
GC | Gas Check |