Matt makes and sells 4 .361 bullets for the 38 S&W, three of which are a nominal 200 grains. One copies the Webley Mk I, another (mine) the Webley MkII and the third for solid frame revolvers. Thus far I have had good results with the Mk II in my early 50s Singapore police Webley Mk IV, pictured above.Originally Posted by DonMountain
Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.
Ok, I have the one Matt sells as the Mk 1 boolit. I'll try seating them out a little farther so they just fit in the cylinder and crimp the casing tight to the boolit with 2.5 grains of Unique and go shoot them! See what happens.
I am going to load some more today and I will measure the OAL and post it here.
Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.
1.3260"..oops that should read 1.2360
Last edited by Char-Gar; 02-24-2014 at 11:57 PM.
Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.
You must a different Webley and Scott than I have. The overall length of my cylinder with a cartridge seated, and including the rim thickness is 1.260". The cylinder length is 1.214" on both of my Webley's. So, are mine odd ones? They both look the same with the same markings but one of them has a cross bolt safety button on it that locks the hammer from coming back. So neither of mine will take the cartridge length of 1.3260" that you can load in yours. So I need to load mine more than 1/16" shorter in order to fit in the cylinder and clear. Plus a little for safety.
Ok, I reset my boolit seating die to end up with a total cartridge length of 1.250", leaving just a hair of length short of the cylinder end. And crimp them in tight to the boolit surface. I hope they won't budge in recoil under 2.5 grains of Unique. But the powder just fits in the space now, without being crushed like before. I will take them out to the range tomorrow. Since I will be there anyway splitting some firewood before it rains again. I loaded 6 of them so I can shoot 3 of them and have my wife shoot 3 of them for comparison. I have been having trouble with her and shooting. Me and the son-in-law were out back the barn shooting trap on Saturday and the girls came out to see what we were doing, and ended up shooting up more than half of my ammo and all of my skeet. And she sent me out to the store to get more. And a couple of more boxes of reloads for the 12 gauge from the house.
Pics with numbers..My dyslexia with numbers kicked in again on the cartridge overall length stated above. I inverted two numbers. These pic will keep me from pulling the same stunt again.
Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.
Ok, I shot my 6 loaded rounds with the 209 grain Matt's Boolits MK-1 Webley model. Loaded at 1.250" over all length, with 2.5 grains of Unique and Remington small pistol primers in Winchester casings. They shot real well without the boolits creeping forward in the cylinder. I haven't quite had enough practice though to see where the sights will hit. The last two at 25 yards hit real close to what I was shooting at on the target. So now its back to the loading bench to load another 50 for accuracy testing. Its just unusual in firing this gun to hear it go off and then it seems like a long period of time and you can hear the boolit hit the metal target holder (an old road speed limit sign left in the ditch in front of my farm). So, it looks like if I was deer hunting with this pistol and the deer was running, I would have to lead them quite a bit? Even at 25 yards?
These bullets do take a little time to arrive. I don't think I would deer hunt with these loads--the 357 Magnum with similar-weight bullets might not be a bad combination, but my Lyman #358430s in the 357 start out and arrive at twice the velocity of these 200 grain 38 S&W loads. Apples and oranges, entirely--and the bullets are cast as softpoints.
I don't paint bullets. I like Black Rifle Coffee. Sacred cows are always fair game. California is to the United States what Syria is to Russia and North Korea is to China/South Korea/Japan--a Hermit Kingdom detached from the real world and led by delusional maniacs, an economic and social basket case sustained by "foreign" aid so as to not lose military bases.
Dusting off this old thread, Accurate 36-190T is probably the optimum bullet for those wanting a heavy, low velocity bullet for the .38 S&W or .38 Special.
Correct charge for standard pressure in the Colt Police Positive, Webley Mark IV or S&W Victory Model is 2 grains of TiteGroup measured with RCBS Little Dandy Rotor #00, or 2.2 grains of Bullseye using the Little Dandy Rotor #0.
In the S&W Model 32-1 Terrier, Model 33 Regulation Police, or the Ruger India Model Service Six you can go up to the Little Dandy Rotor #1 (2.5 grains) of Bullseye, or 3.5 grains of Olin AutoComp, measured by the same rotor.
When crimped in the crimp groove using .38 Special brass, Ctg. OAL is 1.59".
The standard pressure load in the .38 Special is 3.0 grains of Bullseye measured using Little Dandy rotor #3.
The +P load in .38 Special is 3.5 grains of Bullseye, measured with Little Dandy rotor #5 or 4.9 grains of AutoComp measured with the same rotor.
Attachment 211143
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Outpost et al--
This Accurate Molds #36-190T looks in all respects to be a superior design to service the needs of a heavy-for-caliber bullet in 38/200, 38 Special, or 357 Magnum. It could easily replace at least 2 existing moulds in my cabinet, though I would greatly miss Lyman #358430/195 grain version--that bullet just plain SHOOTS in 38s and 357s. Someone still exploring the possibilities in this venue could do far worse than to get an Accurate #36-190T, for darn sure.
I don't paint bullets. I like Black Rifle Coffee. Sacred cows are always fair game. California is to the United States what Syria is to Russia and North Korea is to China/South Korea/Japan--a Hermit Kingdom detached from the real world and led by delusional maniacs, an economic and social basket case sustained by "foreign" aid so as to not lose military bases.
With its .442" nose length, OAL in .357 Magnum brass would be 1.73", OK in NM Rugers, but not S&Ws
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Not very different than Lyman #358429 in that respect. #36-190T might be best-suited to the 38/200 niche, but it could do good service in other calibers with a few adjustments.
I don't paint bullets. I like Black Rifle Coffee. Sacred cows are always fair game. California is to the United States what Syria is to Russia and North Korea is to China/South Korea/Japan--a Hermit Kingdom detached from the real world and led by delusional maniacs, an economic and social basket case sustained by "foreign" aid so as to not lose military bases.
Absolutely Stellar in .38 Special!
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I just received back from John Taylor the .38 S&W barrel fitted to my pre-war H&R .44/.410 shotgun frame. Barrel is 20" long, and 0.70" diameter at the muzzle. Overall length of gun is 34-1/2" and it weighs 4-1/2 pounds. Barrel is a Green Mountain 9mm Parabellum blank in 1:10" twist, because I wanted to stabilize the 36-190T bullet at the lowest velocity which would reliably exit the barrel. Chamber reamer which John now has is a custom from Dave Manson which has a .363 major diameter to the forcing cone and 3 degrees, Basic throat with no cylindrical ball seat.
Photo of breech seated 36-190T bullet shows engraving on forepart of bullet as breech is closed.
When seated and crimped in the crimp groove nose will still be engraved, but not as forcefully.
The .38 S&W cartridge is an ideal choice for use in old blackpowder actions as the factory rounds don't exceed 14,000 psi, and unlike .38 Special, there are no +Ps to worry about accidentally getting into the rifle. I haven't had a chance to shoot this yet, as it just arrived today, but I will be testing a variety of factory .38 S&W loads in this rifle, as well as my S&W Victory Model with 5" barrel and S&W Model 32-1 with 2" barrel. I will also work up handloads in the Ruger India Model with 4" barrel and try those in the rifle when the weather gets warmer.
Objective is NOT to see how much velocity I can get, but to see how low and slow I can get with the 190-grain bullet for minimum noise. My reasoning is that an ordinary revolver load which gets 600 fps. should exit the rifle barrel, but with the tiny powder charge and 20 inch barrel, velocity gain should be modest and muzzle exit pressure very low. I don't expect rifle velocities with standard-pressure 190-grain loads to exceed 750 fps. A mild "Lettuce Defender" which won't disturb the neighbors.
Attachment 212562Attachment 212563Attachment 212564
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ZOMBIE THREAD...yeah, I know. I was reading along because I just ordered the NOE 204gr boolit for 38-200 as I am going to do my darndest to get a Smith Victory Model in 38-200, and I wanna make the old Brit service load.
Unfortunately, since this thread drifted into death 7 years ago, a number of popular pistol powders have vanished along with Alliant, so I have much less to work with. I found data provided by my most excellent buddy LAGS that shows 2.6 gr of AA#5 under the 195 gr boolit, so I am WAGing it to be a 2.2 gr AA35 to start under the 204gr NOE boolit, which mold I just ordered, since the company is closing the doors forever.
If someone has better info, please speak up. This, obviously, is not going to be a carry pistol or a hunting pistol, just a fun revolver I want to enjoy for grins and giggles.
Armoredman, check the "Fun with a Webley MKIV. . ." thread currently up at the top of the stickied threads of this sub-forum.
Outpost 75 and I have been getting good results with Titegroup and Bullseye behind the MKI bullet. Definitely a job for the fast burn rates.
WWJMBD?
In the Land of Oz, we cast with wheel weight and 2% Tin, Man.
For a Webley top-break 2 grains of Bullseye or TiteGroup safely matches service velocity.
In the S&W Victory .38 S&W, post 1920 Colts and Ruger India Model you can go to 2.5 grains, but there is no advantage to doing so.
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Can always use the trailboss formula..
And what is currently missing on every store shelf...Trailboss, Unique, Bullseye, etc. I can get AA#5 which is the only thing I have found with any data I could use - the local store has a spot on the shelf for Titegroup, just never anything IN it.
This is not a top break, but a solid frame Victory Model.
But I do thank you for your time and I will see what I can come up with.
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