I have been using GOEX for years, but now , time for a change.
Graf & Sons vs Old Eynsford wich is the better way to go?
Thanks,
Knarley
I have been using GOEX for years, but now , time for a change.
Graf & Sons vs Old Eynsford wich is the better way to go?
Thanks,
Knarley
A gun in hand is worth two cops on the phone.
MOLON LABE
Graf and Sons is less expensive, Old Eynsford has more velocity and softer fouling.
So the "Old E' would shoot flatter and cleaner.
Loading for 45-70, and later a Shilo 38-55.
A gun in hand is worth two cops on the phone.
MOLON LABE
Olde Eynsford is a much better powder than the regular Goex. OE should be treated much like Swiss,Schuetzen(grafs) in that the 1 1/2 f is about the same powder kernel size as 2f Goex. 2f OE is similar in kernel size to 3f Goex.
Long range rules, the rest drool.
So how does it compare to G&S?
A gun in hand is worth two cops on the phone.
MOLON LABE
oh, a .45-70 ... swiss 1-1/2f - there's a winning reason most of the top shooters use it.
Swiss has always been my first choice, but a few of us have been using OE for several years now, and I have not seen any difference in my BPCR Silhouette scores. At nearly half the price, it is a winner in my opinion...
Old E is the way to go.
There is no comparison really...I have used 3 cases of Graf's and it is just Schutzen powder relabeled with Grafs label. The Grafs is fine powder for it's cost for my flintlock, but it NO way compares to Olde E 1 1/2f for BPCR
Olde E is American! And it's cheaper than Swiss.. And it easily shoots as well as Swiss!!
Goex and Hodgdon sent 2 American employees to the Quigley this year and they shook my hand to thank me for support. I didn't see Swiss there???
Most of the the folks that preach Swiss have not given OE a chance because it works!.
But most everyone that shoots in the heat is learning that OE will hydrate way better than Swiss and is easily as accurate! And it is usually a little faster.
Don't believe all the hype about "top" shooters either...those folks will out-shoot most of us, even if they use smokeless or nitrated horse cr@p ,it's not their powder choice that makes them win.
Last edited by freedom475; 07-12-2017 at 12:32 AM.
Well then, Old E it is. I know I'll never be shooting at you guys's level, but I sure appreciate the help.
Knarley
A gun in hand is worth two cops on the phone.
MOLON LABE
I'm not a top shooter but I switched from Swiss to OE because of price and haven't noticed any down side on my scores. In fact they have probably improved because of more trigger time for the same money. Of course I am using more lead but I haven't exhausted my supply of free lead yet so I'm still ahead of the game.
Bob
GUNFIRE! The sound of Freedom!
I would say it depends on your level of expertise in loading.
If you have managed to get decent results with regular GOEX, your techniques ought to transfer easily to the Olde Eynsford, with better results on the target.
I had some fairly promising groups with Schuetzen (when it was Schuetzen), but when OE 1-1/2 came along, I quit the research on the other powders. It took 3 gr more OE 1-1/2 to get the same elevations as with Swiss 1-1/2 at 600 yards, and then the groups were the same. Pricewise, I was still way, way ahead.
Swiss is ideal for those getting started. It doesn't necessarily need compression, so an optimum load is achieved pretty quickly. If you have yet to see your first 3 MOA 5-shot group, loading with Swiss will tell you if your gun is accurate or not. But with OE $10 a pound cheaper than Swiss, there is a powerful incentive to switch over, if it is possible. I've done so with 1-1/2Fg and grease groove boolits, and am working on 1Fg with paper patch.
And you're probably shooting at my level already. I'm still trying to get into AA Class. But it isn't the gun or load holding me back.
You could save a lot of money by using Kik or Skirmish.
KIK is good stuff...but it's not made in American, I don't think it is made at all any more. The fouling is really dry and hard. You have to work at it to get it to shoot well. I had to "sock" the powder to remove some of the flour and send a lot of lead down range.
Here's a group that really shows its' capability at 300 yards with proper fouling control and load work.
Last edited by freedom475; 07-12-2017 at 12:06 PM.
KIK was a good powder in some cartridges. It was a lot like the old Goex Cartridge. But as it is no longer available, working up a load with it now would be an excercise in trigger time, unless a person has a case of it laying in the powder magazine..
Long range rules, the rest drool.
Ive been using Olde Ensford in most of my BPCR guns . I tried Swiss and still have some here. The Olde Ensford just seems to work for me. The swiss gave good accuracy and a little harder fouling also seemed like more fouling but that's kind of subjective. The olde Ensford seems to shoot very well with very good extreme spreads and Standard deviations. ( my one load gave 3.2 SD with olde ensford). If you can do it by mixed case of graffs and olde ensford in 1F, 11/2F and 2F. work and see what the rifkes like and then buy the full case of that.
FWIW,
Pricing at Powder Inc
KIK 1.5, 1F $14.90 (until gone- its discontinued)
Goex $18.10
Schuetzen $17.55
O.E. $19.55
Swiss $24.15
All, case lot pricing with shipping/hazmat
At a 70 gr load, the Swiss is .2415 per shot, the OE is .1955 per shot.
The Swiss is about 20% more per shot than is OE.
A savings to use OE, but not humongous difference.
I would not change from Swiss to OE just to save 5c per shot.
I suggest, simply shoot what works best in your gun.
beltfed/arnie
BP | Bronze Point | IMR | Improved Military Rifle | PTD | Pointed |
BR | Bench Rest | M | Magnum | RN | Round Nose |
BT | Boat Tail | PL | Power-Lokt | SP | Soft Point |
C | Compressed Charge | PR | Primer | SPCL | Soft Point "Core-Lokt" |
HP | Hollow Point | PSPCL | Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" | C.O.L. | Cartridge Overall Length |
PSP | Pointed Soft Point | Spz | Spitzer Point | SBT | Spitzer Boat Tail |
LRN | Lead Round Nose | LWC | Lead Wad Cutter | LSWC | Lead Semi Wad Cutter |
GC | Gas Check |