BB rifles for hunting and hand pumpers as well as tank use .

[melloairman]

One looks like a rolling block .http://air-ordnance.com/modoc/ and the other does not . http://www.inovairtech.com/ Thought that there might be some useful info here for some . I know in the past that some have questioned why would you pay that price for a AR . For the same reason you buy several PB . Or hunt with your choice of a long bow , cross bow , hand gun , long gun , or a black powder gun . Because you want to and can in this country . Marvin

[Multigunner]

Saw a video on that Rolling Block Modoc rifle awhile back. looks like a very cool and useful gun.
Power level would be a bit better than a rifle chambered for .32 S&W Long. Plenty good enough for Turkey or other small to low weight medium game animals and birds.

The Texan .50 and .45 caliber guns are awesome. They have about the same power as a .45 ACP.

None of these should be classed as "BB Guns" they are pellet guns and/or pneumatic slug guns.
The earliest air guns were in much the same power range, intended for medium size game animals up to and including wild boar. Guns of .70 caliber and up were common. They were even used in war for a time.
Pneumatic powered Cane guns of the 19th century were also often more powerful than pocket pistols of the era.

A major advantage is they can't prohibit or tax air.

You should check out airgun hunter videos from Asia, where airguns are about the only option. The handmade airguns shown are ingenious.

[melloairman]

Saw a video on that Rolling Block Modoc rifle awhile back. looks like a very cool and useful gun.
Power level would be a bit better than a rifle chambered for .32 S&W Long. Plenty good enough for Turkey or other small to low weight medium game animals and birds.

The Texan .50 and .45 caliber guns are awesome. They have about the same power as a .45 ACP.

None of these should be classed as "BB Guns" they are pellet guns and/or pneumatic slug guns.
The earliest air guns were in much the same power range, intended for medium size game animals up to and including wild boar. Guns of .70 caliber and up were common. They were even used in war for a time.
Pneumatic powered Cane guns of the 19th century were also often more powerful than pocket pistols of the era.

A major advantage is they can't prohibit or tax air.

You should check out airgun hunter videos from Asia, where airguns are about the only option. The handmade airguns shown are ingenious.

BB Stands for big bore air rifles . A term given to a class of AR many years ago . Marvin

[DanishM1Garand]

They can ban lead projectiles. California and Obama both are are on a non toxic bullet kick.

These rifles fill a niche for hunting in places where an unsuppressed gun would cause problems. A parcel of land next to a devolpement for instance.

77 grains at 1000 feet per second is nothing to sneeze at.

[Multigunner]

"BB Stands for big bore air rifles "
Not a very good choice of term, considering that BB rifles always stood for .18/.177 caliber round ball shooting airguns styled more or less like rifles, even though BB guns are ordinarily not rifled. Some European .177 BB guns, like the Drozd made for use with round lead shot as well as steel shot are rifled.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Firearms News, January 2017, Issue 2, there's an article on the latest air rifles including some big bores. No prices. Think I'm getting interested in owning one.

[koehlerrk]

Bought my first pneumatic gun last year, a lightly used Benjamin Marauder.

I'm hooked. These pcp guns are flat out amazing in what they can do. Next, I want a Benjamin Bulldog in 357, launches 150gr bullets at 800-900 fps.

[melloairman]

"BB Stands for big bore air rifles "
Not a very good choice of term, considering that BB rifles always stood for .18/.177 caliber round ball shooting airguns styled more or less like rifles, even though BB guns are ordinarily not rifled. Some European .177 BB guns, like the Drozd made for use with round lead shot as well as steel shot are rifled.

It is a term established by some of the first and best known builders of AR . I can see your point as well . But look at some of the terms we as casters use . Smelting , and mining ? And fire arms calibers and boolit, sizes 38 caliber or is it a 38 special caliber or a .357 or .358 . And the list goes on . The term use to stand for and still does to a large mass of shooters for any thing of .300 and up in boolit diameter. Some are now saying it should stand for a certain amount of energy . Which in my opinion is not proper . What does that have to do with the term or BB used to state a size of a built . This adds to miss use of terms . Just have to except the way things are sometimes .Marvin

[Multigunner]

"They can ban lead projectiles. "
Even if we couldn't salvage lead for projectiles cast zinc alloy bullets have proven very accurate in fire arms at the same velocity levels, so pellets of slugs would remain available.
The arrow shooting pneumatic guns are another option.

Yesterday while going through some old boxes I found some .177 aluminum and plastic darts I bought many years ago. They didn't work well in the airguns I had at the time so I forgot about them.
I tried them in a 760 crosman at two and three pumps and found them reasonably accurate in that gun and in my 1377.

A heavier fin stabilized steel dart, suited to the bigger bores and with driving band or sabot to protect rifling should be deadly on game animals, through probably not as accurate as proper pellets or slugs.
A scaled down copy of the waisted sabot slugs used in shotguns with rifled bore inserts should also be fairly accurate at air gun velocities.

[Tracy]

"BB Stands for big bore air rifles "
Not a very good choice of term, considering that BB rifles always stood for .18/.177 caliber round ball shooting airguns

Agreed. And using "AR" as an abbreviation for air rifle is a bad idea too. How about using actual words, at least in an opening post? Or is that just too much trouble?

[melloairman]

"They can ban lead projectiles. "
Even if we couldn't salvage lead for projectiles cast zinc alloy bullets have proven very accurate in fire arms at the same velocity levels, so pellets of slugs would remain available.
The arrow shooting pneumatic guns are another option.

Yesterday while going through some old boxes I found some .177 aluminum and plastic darts I bought many years ago. They didn't work well in the airguns I had at the time so I forgot about them.
I tried them in a 760 crosman at two and three pumps and found them reasonably accurate in that gun and in my 1377.

A heavier fin stabilized steel dart, suited to the bigger bores and with driving band or sabot to protect rifling should be deadly on game animals, through probably not as accurate as proper pellets or slugs.
A scaled down copy of the waisted sabot slugs used in shotguns with rifled bore inserts should also be fairly accurate at air gun velocities.

I have shot up to 22 bhn bullets out of AR made in the US that have TJ liners for barrels with no accuracy problems Never tried zinc but it might work as well . But there are several avenues to go with the right barrel . My Korean rifles will not maintain accuracy beyond a 10 bhn alloy . But back to my original post purpose was to give some insight to a low volume fill rifle for a hunter with only a hand pump .Marvin

[Multigunner]

The Brocock precharged pneumatic cartridges were more of a novelty at one time, allowing quick conversion of a cartridge firearm to fire pellets propelled by compressed air and later a line of purpose designed replica guns .

They were not all that powerful but in the UK street thugs quickly found they could alter the air cartridge to hold an 8mm theatrical blank and use it to fire a heavy pellet or lead slug at lethal velocities.
Because of this these were possibly the first air guns banned in the UK.

Not sure if the Modoc could be altered this way, but you can bet someone somewhere will give it a go.

A compact quick detachable air cylinder and a belt pouch full of spare cylinders makes more sense to me than a large capacity reservoir permanently mounted on the rifle.
A slender cylinder in a stout tube inside the butt stock with vents in case of a catastrophic failure of the cylinder or its connection seal should be plenty safe.
A ten shot at full power capacity per cylinder would be okay for hunting purposes. Even fewer full power shots per cylinder would be acceptable if the cylinders were easy to swap out.

One of ten cylinders blowing out due to some accident would be less of a danger than a cylinder with ten times the capacity doing the same.

If the cylinders were small enough a compartment for one could be built into the pump body itself. Just insert the cylinder tighten it down and start pumping.

[Motard]

Multigunner, the smaller the cilinder the less air it will contain and the more rapidly rifle precision will be affected from pressure variation, external temperature etc etc. English air hunters always prefers midern Pcp rifles tht can guarantee over 40 consistent load in the underbarrel reservoir, and some purist' s choice is for high ends springers like AirArms. Those are akso my preferred for same purpose, pcp and springer

Inviato dal mio F5321 utilizzando Tapatalk

[jcwit]

For some reason if 1,000 members here "and we are gun people" were asked what AR stands for I'm betting there would be 900 + members would say AR? a rifle used by the armed forces as in AR16.

If a similar question was asked about BB I'm again betting 900+ folks would say a kids BB gun as in a Daisy rifle.

Prove me wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



BTW, I own a Discovery, I happen to use it with CO2 as at my age "73" it's pretty hard to pump up. I also own 8 springers ll the way from common available ones to a Walther 300.

[melloairman]

For some reason if 1,000 members here "and we are gun people" were asked what AR stands for I'm betting there would be 900 + members would say AR? a rifle used by the armed forces as in AR16.

If a similar question was asked about BB I'm again betting 900+ folks would say a kids BB gun as in a Daisy rifle.

Prove me wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



BTW, I own a Discovery, I happen to use it with CO2 as at my age "73" it's pretty hard to pump up. I also own 8 springers ll the way from common available ones to a Walther 300.

Welcome to a AR forum . I hope you can become a custom to AR forum terminology soon . Marvin

[jcwit]

Nope, an AR will always mean to me an Army rifle, likely in .223 caliber. Just as a BB gun will always likely be a Daisy.

BTW, my first BB gun was 68 years ago.

Again, prove me wrong!

[jh45gun]

I agree bb is a round slightly under 177 round ball used in bb guns and b b/pellet guns. Big Bore should be spelled out.

[Multigunner]

IIRC the Term BB comes from the French term Ball Boulette , though I don't remember the exact spelling.
It basically means "Spherical Bullet" or "Round Ball" shot as opposed to Conical Ball bullets.

The 6mm Airsoft BB shot falls within the broad definition, but not by much.

Size BB bird and small game lead shot are .18 caliber, the original type of shot used in the early production BB guns.

[Mr Humble]

Nobody ever called a 416 Rigby a "BB", as for AR, it has always meant Automatic Rifle as in BAR.

My first BB gun was a Daisy pump style some 63 years ago. It was great for picking starlings out of the tall dead locust trees as you could see the BB's line of flight against the sky and adjust accordingly. After killing a ton of them, we had songbirds again.

[melloairman]

It is a term established by some of the first and best known builders of AR . I can see your point as well . But look at some of the terms we as casters use . Smelting , and mining ? And fire arms calibers and boolit, sizes 38 caliber or is it a 38 special caliber or a .357 or .358 . And the list goes on . The term use to stand for and still does to a large mass of shooters for any thing of .300 and up in boolit diameter. Some are now saying it should stand for a certain amount of energy . Which in my opinion is not proper . What does that have to do with the term or BB used to state a size of a built . This adds to miss use of terms . Just have to except the way things are sometimes .Marvin

here is a video that might help some of you understand .Marvin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njW2z_SoFP8