Heavy Leading in 9mm

[Alstep]

Greetings everyone,
Getting heavy leading in my 9mm. Bore slugs at .348-.356. Using a Lee 356-120TC, drops at .357. Alloy is 1Pb-1WW. BHN is 9.2 Lube is 45-45-10. 4.2gr Unique. Using as is, no sizing. Functions great in CZ75B. My guess is I need a bigger boolit, or harder alloy. Where am I going wrong???
Appreciate your advise.

[rhill]

At first I had the same problem with 9mm. I am using the same boolit, only mine drops at about .359 and I shoot without sizing. It turned out by switching powder 90% of the leading went away, and when I switched to Hi Tek coating I now have no leading at all. I was tumble lubing with LLA previously. In my case leading occurred with Bullseye, and when I switched to Unique it improved a lot. I am shooting 4.5gr. Unique. Maybe your bore does not like Unique and needs something else. I just bought a keg of Tite Group so I am curious to see what that does. There are a lot of variables shooting cast, so I would advise to only change one thing at a time when experimenting or else you will not know for sure what you did that changed the results. I myself would shoot 50 rounds with each change so you can really see any change in your bore. I know some people only load 10 or 20, but I have found it sometimes takes more rounds thru the tube to get a true idea of what your load is doing to your barrel. Keep us posted there are people here who know alot and can hopefully help you out.

[GhostHawk]

I would say bigger bullet first.

I had issues with a Hipoint C9 that evaporated as soon as I started feeding it .359 boolits.

As to the alloy, if the bigger boolit does not do it I might try a bit more WW or a touch of tin.
But normally I have no issues using range scrap. As long as the fit is good.

[BK7saum]

You may be loading 0.357 bullets, but what size is your expander? Chances are the case is sizing down your soft bullet to 0.356 or 0.355"

[BK7saum]

I usually use an expander the same size as the bullet and let springback be the neck tension on revolver ammo and a slightly smaller expander on semi-auto ammo. If this is a factory die set and expander, chances are it is 0.353 or 0.354 at the most.

[gloob]

In my case leading occurred with Bullseye, and when I switched to Unique it improved a lot.

I have wondered about powder. The conventional wisdom is that a fast powder can sometimes bump a soft bullet up a bit. But maybe if it's too fast, a softer bullet gets stripped by the rifling before it starts turning, or something.

At any rate, if your bullets are 357 and your bore is 356, you do not need the bullet to bump up, at all. You just have to make sure it gets into the barrel while still full size. So +1 to BK7saum. 1:1 Pb and Wheelweights @ 9 BHN is soft. If you want to use such a soft alloy, you really need to open up your cases, first. Esp in 9mm or 40SW. Even BHN18 bullets can get measurably swaged by a 9mm case, if the size die is tight. Regular industry standard 353 expander is not even an expander. It's just a flare die, AFAIC. The most it can open a case out to is ~351... lol. At 9 BHN, if you use a standard case sizing die and expander, you can be sure your bullets are not anywhere close to 357 at the base, once you have stuffed them into the case. Could be as small as... 352-353 or so. BTDT. But it depends, like I said, on your particular sizing die (and of course variation between brass). Not your stock expander. Your stock expander isn't doing any expanding in any case. You could replace it with Lee Universal Expander die, and you would get the same result.. which is it will work fine for most people for jacketed and commercial cast. But if you have a problem, particularly with such soft bullets, you can probably start looking right here.

FWIW, I am the lucky owner of a tight 9mm sizing die. I use NOE 356/360 expander plug, and life is good. Works fine for bullet diameter 355-357.

[Alstep]

My 9mm expander die sized the bullet very tight. When I pulled bullets, the brass sized down the bullets. So I used the expander from my .38 dies. Now the bullets seated easily and were not sized down. I still had severe leading.
The same 1-1 alloy with 45-45-10 lube leaves no leading at all in my .45ACP. I'm thinking higher pressure in the 9mm will need a harder alloy. I'm going to cast the next batch using WW only and see what happens.

[gloob]

Wow, that was quick. You have a shooting range in your backyard?

[runfiverun]

I shoot a cz-75B also and go a bit harder than ww allo and also use a 358 diameter.
B-troj is shooting the same set-up as I am right down to load and mold but he was suffering some minor leading and I wasn't.
he pulled his barrel and had some very rough spots right at the start of the rifling.
it's since been sent to Doug guy to get a throat cut into it.

[TXCOONDOG]

I'm having similar issues as described. I slugged my barrel at .356. I'm using straight COWW and even AC to BHN 14-16 it still leads my barrel sized at .356.5". Boolits sized at .357-.358 will not chamber reliably so I need to send my barrel to DougGuy for throating, etc as the next step.

Hopefully that solves my issue.

PS: I'm using Longshot and CCI 500 primers.

[Alstep]

Wow, that was quick. You have a shooting range in your backyard?

Yup, can shoot right off the back porch.

[rhill]

Don't forget if you use harder alloy, you can also water drop when casting and get your boolits even harder.

[Don Fischer]

I have never slugged a barrel. Shooting cast bullet's in handguns for over 40yrs, haven't learned a thing! I had to go check the dia of my 9mm bullet's. The one I checked were powder coated then sized through a .356 Lee sizer. I got just a bare shade under .356. I had a bunch I'd tumble coated and sized before coating but never measured them Neither the PC bullet's of the tumble cat bullet's have given me any leading at all. I don't know the answer but if I were you, I'd try some powder coated bullet's. I haven't used them a long time but sounds to me like the barrel and the gas don't burn off the powder coat. If you need a few PC billet's in .356 to try and your not to far off, I could let you have some. Ya know, my 38 bullet's and 32 bullet's I lube in a Lyman 450 and they have never leaded anything either. When I went to casting rifle bullet's, same experience, no leading at all tumble coating of PC. But before shooting them I read where all the copper fouling had to be out of the barrel before shooting cast in them. Pain in the but but both looked like new unfired barrels when I was done. I wonder if that does make a difference? I have never shot jacketed bullet's in my handguns!

[skeettx]

After you delead your barrel, do you lube your barrel.
I find that just like a cast iron skillet, the barrel needs
to be seasoned.
Mike

[tazman]

After you delead your barrel, do you lube your barrel.
I find that just like a cast iron skillet, the barrel needs
to be seasoned.
Mike

For best accuracy, seasoning the bore with whatever lube you intend to use is recommended by some of the top shooters.
I can't tell about that myself since I am not good enough to see the difference anyway. What I can tell is that I get great accuracy(for me) with no leading using water dropped boolits that are tumble lubed in all my guns including my 9mm handguns. I use range scrap and water drop. I don't have a BHN tester but you cannot scratch the boolits with your fingernail.
When I clean my guns after a session, I clean the exterior and the cylinder of my revolvers and the chamber and action of my semi-autos. I don't clean the barrels because they are never dirty or leaded.

[Alstep]

The weather let up around here today, so went out and ran another 50 rounds through the CZ75B. Same setup as before, except cast out of straight WW. Checks out to 14BHN. Still heavy leading. That Lee 356-120-TC functions flawlessly, but leading is awful and accuracy suffers. I think my next step is a .358+ mold. Been looking at an Arsenal 358-125-TC, which is similar to the Lee. Anybody have any experience with Arsenal molds? Your thoughts much appreciated.

[boho]

What works for my Bersa 9mm is the NOE 359242 with Felix lube and 700x.

[n.h.schmidt]

I have a question for you guys using up to .358 dia cast 9mm bullets. How do you deal with the case bulge that bottom edge of the bullet causes? I would like to use the .358 dia cast bullet for at least one of my 9mms. I have made a custom expander that is .3562 dia and when pushed deep enough to equal the bullet seating depth causes a bulge in the case . The case will not fit the chamber with the bulge. Many cases are so thick I can't see this working. I do have a few WW made cases that are thin sided and little to no bulge. Almost all range pickups have the thick sides. Thanks
n.h.schmidt

[skeettx]

I use a Lee Carbide 9mm Makarov sizing die,
Mike

[Edward]

Might be able to help as I have been there done that ,BLL /BHN 15 or PC and no lead in my GL26 and I"m in Eldred NY. PM anytime/Ed