Case gauges worth? Do you thurst them?

[Motard]

So until now I have been religiously buyng a case gage checking die for each rifle caliber I reload. Usually don't test each batch of rounds (if full lenght sized) but I often I do it with neck sized batches. Yesterday whent to the range with 50 just reloaded rounds and discovered that plenty did'nt chamber in the wide chamber of my Remington R5 308 rifle. I remember having revised the heads space setting for this die before starting reloading that last batch of rounds and I am fairly shure I passed them all throu the lyman 308 gage before fitting them the range box. Nevertheless at least half where impossibly to fire and the rest did made the bolt stiff to close (shoulder bumping non enaught). I didn't shot one and admit I was so frustrated that as soon at home grabbed the cinetic hammer and dismantled all as a fool. Stupid behaviour cause I should have done some mickhing before. I then shortened one or two tens of mm the shoulder bumping and full sized alla the brass again. Problem gone but.... do you thrust the commercial HS dies shaped gages (like Lyman, Redding, Wilson) for avoiding this problem?. Or I better test each new batch shoulder bumping with a gauge like the HorNady Head Space (wich I have) and mics the other main measures before starting droping power in the brasses? I ask this because this is the fisrt time this issues rises in a so big number of loads but seldom I experience some stiff or difficoult chambering round also if the faulty round had passed the gauge test.

[ReloaderFred]

The only rifle gauge I use is the RCBS Precision Mic, which simply tells me what the headspace is for each chamber in that caliber. I then set up my full length sizing die to set the shoulder back .002" for that chamber. For instance, all my M1 Garand chambers run about +.008" over minimum, so I have a sizing die for just those rifles, which sets the headspace on those cases at +006" over minimum. I have other rifles in .30-06 whose chambers are +.002" over minimum, so I have another sizing die set to size those cases at minimum. I have a third rifle in that caliber with a chamber at +.004", which is my hunting rifle, and those cases get sized to +.002" over minimum.

Your rifle's chamber is the best gauge, since that's where the ammunition is going to fired. I've never seen a round of ammunition fired through a case gauge, and hope I never do. Size the case for the chamber, and you're chambering problems will go away. Your brass will also last longer.........

Hope this helps.

Fred

[str8wal]

I don't own a single case gauge, FWIW.

[Kevin Rohrer]

I use case gages in conjunction with my case trimmers. Both are indispensable.

[runfiverun]

all my rifles come with a case gauge.

I treat every rifle as if it were a wild cat and load to it's tastes.
it takes a little longer but I know what I have.

[Motard]

Hallo Fred, thanks for Your's help. The RCBS mic seems the best for headspacing correctly. Unfortunately across the ocean they cost a little more than and eyes and an arm, whenerver You can find them. And, I think, a different one is needed for each caliber. This is why since now I have tried to correctly headspacing using the Hornady gauge that is a somehow fiddling, and asks for repetitive measurementds before finding the correct numbers. Once dane I keep track of eveything on my reloading boocklets. I am too seating my dies as to bump the shoulder no more than 0,02 inch and I was tring minimizing the back shoulder pusching when I made the mess. Cause 308 range brass is very common also over here I am not too concerned for his life and every few shots I full size. I have recently added a 7mm rem mag to my rifles and here is another story. I am tring to be conservative with this brass so I started backing up my Lee set as much as possible (1/10 of mm air between die's base and shell holder) and still having it chambered. Then I found in shop a redding "solo" body die (no neck sizing) that seated to bare contact the shell holder is capable of fully sizing the body, letting collett and shoulder untouched. This and the Lee Neck collet die (with some filing on madrel) should let me reload some few time more those costly cases. Mae be I could have bought a 7 Brennecke and avoid some headacke with those belted magnum case reduced life, but the rifle (Remigton Bdl) was superb, unfired, and in asthonishing condition. Couldn't resist the fashination from this real american weapon.

[country gent]

All of my gages were cut with the same reamer that chambered my rifles so yes I do trust them. Minor diffrences between reamers and fired cases may make a diffrence at times

[EDG]

The chamber is the ultimate gage for your ammo.
However I have a lot of case gages and gunsmith headspace gages. I can tell you that every last one of them is correct. You can even drop a gun smith headspace gage into a Wilson gage and they will match at the step exactly.

[Motard]

Edg, do You mean "correct " considering one average Saami specs round? my main concern is on not going at the range (hunting loads are checked each one) with some unusable rounds. Obviously I can allways test rounds before shooting but I feel not confortable chambering live cartriges in home. To avoid that untill now I relyed mostly on having dies fixed seated and in a final check with specific caliber gages I have. I was wrong. Once I started lessening tolerances in order to achieve more precision and more brass lifespan my system showed all his limits. Now I whent back restarting micking and comparing between my fired and resized rounds on all calibers and reseating dies, and I think I will relegate the gage dies to a rapid check of oal and brass circumference.

[EDG]

They are correct to the head to datum lengths given on the SAAMI drawings.
You cannot depend on your dies unless you have a very good sizing technique.
You can make the lenngth of the case from the head to the shoulder vary about .002" just from differences in sizing speed, dwell at the top of the stroke and the amount of lube used.
I once formed 100 new .303 British cases into 6.5X53R Dutch brass. The cases would vary .001 to .002 with my variations in technique. Each case was checked with a Stoney Point/Hornady gauge. Then each case was checked in the rifle with the stripped bolt. A case that was .002 long took some force to close the bolt on. A case with .001 extra length took less force. A case that met my die setting produced just a slight drag when the bolt was closed. Some of the cases were resized at the same setting and they worked fine after the second sizing.
After about 4 or 5 of the cases coming out .002 too long I began to rotate the case 120 degrees and size a second time, then rotate 120 and size a 3rd time.
For each case sized I tried to use exactly the same amount of lube, the same slow speed in sizing and a 4 second dwell at the top of the stroke. These steps produced 100 cases all sized exactly the same that were a perfect fit for my chamber. Each case made the bolt drag slightly when I closed it with my pinky finger. Never did I change the initial setting of the die. Once it was correct for a few cases any variations later were traced to my variation in sizing technique (lubricant, speed, dwell and number of sizing cycles).

Edg, do You mean "correct " considering one average Saami specs round? my main concern is on not going at the range (hunting loads are checked each one) with some unusable rounds. Obviously I can allways test rounds before shooting but I feel not confortable chambering live cartriges in home. To avoid that untill now I relyed mostly on having dies fixed seated and in a final check with specific caliber gages I have. I was wrong. Once I started lessening tolerances in order to achieve more precision and more brass lifespan my system showed all his limits. Now I whent back restarting micking and comparing between my fired and resized rounds on all calibers and reseating dies, and I think I will relegate the gage dies to a rapid check of oal and brass circumference.

[jsn]

Gauges can be a good tool, but there are too many chambers cut in too many sizes for them to be an absolute. When you get into chamber reamers that cut tighter than SAAMI specs, the gauges might be useless for brass functioning in specific guns.

[Motard]

Edg, yours example e is extremely informative. I was just starting wondering about some variation on datum to head on my brass. Either from same batch. I did presume it was coming from slight difference in pressures or crimping and couldn never imagine fault from pushing the lever or lubing. This is somethings that can be refined from on m tecnique and experiences, coupled I should say, wit top quality loading gear.

[M-Tecs]

EDG

Neck tension effects shoulder length also. Annealing or using bushing dies that don't use an expanding button helps.

[Motard]

Forgot to say that apart the Hornady Hedspace gauge I rely also on this self made dial I addedd to the RCBS Gaauge Master.

[John Boy]

The chamber is the ultimate gage for your ammo.

Why I have never owned or used a case gauge

[Motard]

Hi John, I can see yours point of view. May be you live in an open country and use your rifle to check if in doubt?. as said I cannot ☺ , leaving in Rome downtown. I whant my reloaded rounds to chamber wherever I am going at the range or huntig. Basically I seat my dies checking the FL brass with sharpye marker and chamering. But I try to keep track of measures of my chambers for future variation. The Hornady HS gauge gave me absolute measures. While the self made Rcbs add on if for fast checkin a known datum. If I did'nt messed with F.L. die tryng to minimize near zero the shoulder pulling back the issue would probably never show. Once raised I'd like to avoid future revenants

[gwpercle]

My case gauge is the best ! My guns chamber...and it's included with the price of the gun.

Reloading tool companies have just sold new reloaders a solution to a problem that didn't exist.
But the real problem is that just because a round fits into the gauge does not mean it's going to fit your guns chamber. Now you have spent money on a useless doohicky.

Are they worth spending the money on....no.

[Bullwolf]

I'm going to offer an opposing view point here.

Generally, I just use the pistol or rifle barrel that I intend to shoot the ammunition in as a gauge.

Things get mixed up a little when I'm loading for multiple firearms of the same caliber, or when loading for a pistol that I don't currently have on my bench.

For example: When loading 45 ACP cartridges for my older 1911 Colt Government model, as well as for Dad's newer pistol that I may not have close by access to.

For something like that I would use a tighter tolerance SAAMI spec Wilson 45 ACP case gauge. Sure, most of the rounds that fail the Wilson gauge will still plunk and fire in my old Colt, but I wouldn't bet on them fitting in someone else's gun. Using the case gauge helps assure that the ammunition will chamber in both guns at the firing line.

Despite being a hand loader, sometimes I need to load ammunition to overly tight tolerances to fit in any gun within specs that I'm likely to encounter. I think that's where a case gauge really shines.

While somewhat harder on brass life, it's a lot less embarrassing than reloads that don't chamber. This comes up more often with semi auto's than it does with bolt action rifles.

Most of the time my rifle brass stays with the gun that it's been fire formed to, and using a case gauge would be somewhat pointless.

The case gauge is just another tool in my reloading toolbox.


- Bullwolf

[Motard]

+1
for BullWolf

[Yodogsandman]

With a semi automatic rifle, I would only full length resize all cases, each and every time you reload them.

Set up the sizing die to just barely bump the shoulder for the tightest fit possible. Using a candle flame, I smoke the shoulder. Then adjust the die down, so that the die barely kisses the datum of the shoulder. Just a slight mark in the carbon covering the shoulder. On my Remington 30-06 semi auto, I found that to feed reliably, I needed to use RCBS small sizing dies that are made for tight chambers.

I don't own any chamber gauges.