Oddball 9mm Case

[tchepone]

Does anyone have any idea what this is? I picked it up at our indoor range.
The headstamp indicates 9mm Luger and the letter POB-JEDA (or possibly a PO8-JEDA).
I tried removing whatever is inside the case with an inertial bullet puller but it will not come out.
The case appears to be steel, a magnet will pick it up.
Thanks...GJH

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[jsn]

Interesting. I have some 9mm Luger brass marked *IMT* with what I thought was a lip like the one yours is showing inside. These are not magnetic, and weight sort heavy and very tightly for 9mm (65-66gr each). Yours look more like an insert, and until I can get one of mine sectioned, mine might be as well.

Will the magnet hold it equally on all sides?

After looking at mine again the *'s are more like large dots with some type of design in them that isn't clear even with magnification.

[Mytmousemalibu]

Its just the way that brass if formed. Also IMT, FM, several others. I refuse to reload that garbage. Prone to fracture at that ring and leave it stuck in the chamber and they have a reduced case capacity which throws the pressure curve off. Can be dangerous.

[4719dave]

throw it the scrap bucketttttttttttttttt

[Bonz]

these come up in our forum every couple of months. https://www.freedommunitions.com/ sells these cases as new ammo. The cup that is in the bottom takes up space and increases the pressure and causes failure. I pick up a lot of these at the range my wife and I shoot at. I crush every one that I get that throw them in the brass scrap. Most of tghe ones I see have a "IMI" headstamp

[Eddie17]

Agree with Bonz, look like scrap!

[runfiverun]

I find some here and there too.
I thought about picking at them with a light load of about 2grs of b-eye or red-dot, snd just sitting the boolit down on that ring.

then re-thought the idea figuring that one would somehow end up in with the other brass and give me no end of grief.

[tchepone]

jsn: Yes, a magnet hold equally all around. the case and insert both seem to be made out of some steel alloy. It will go in my oddities box. When I find another I will try sectioning it to see what is inside. It is definitely inserted "very" tightly.
I am curious to know the reason why it is constructed like that.

Interesting. I have some 9mm Luger brass marked *IMT* with what I thought was a lip like the one yours is showing inside. These are not magnetic, and weight sort heavy and very tightly for 9mm (65-66gr each). Yours look more like an insert, and until I can get one of mine sectioned, mine might be as well.

Will the magnet hold it equally on all sides?

After looking at mine again the *'s are more like large dots with some type of design in them that isn't clear even with magnification.

[jcren]

The ring is to prevent set-back with the factory bullet. I "heard" it was used for solid copper bullets that won't crimp well, but most I have seen have been cheap fmj's

[Outch]

I've seen the same at times. I've just been setting them to the side. Think I'm just going to scrap them. Mine are not magnetic.

[Tackleberry41]

2 reasons they would use the step in the case, one is bullet set back, maybe not an issue for most, but can be one in subguns. The other would be using less powder, can get the same pressure with a smaller charge. So the company could make 2 kinds of brass, then keep track of them, and make sure not mixed accidentally. Or just make one kind of brass for everything. Not every company ever considers reloading.

If you had enough they could probably be reloaded with a light charge of something like bullseye. But that step may only work with one specific bullet, unable to get OAL length right for anything else. And of course keeping track of this special brass.

Theres some questionable stuff out there. A friend came by to do some shooting Sunday, he had a partial box of some reloads he had bought somewhere. Mixed cases, and barely enough charge to cycle a glock, they just dribbled out the side. But very cheap to buy.

[bruce drake]

The headstamp is read POBJEDA

THe company is located in Bosnia-Herzegovina

http://www.pobjeda-technology.com/aboutus

They market in the US under the Maxxtech brand of ammo and your ammo is probably labelled like this

Its often brought in with TULA ammunition imports. they only make pistol ammunition as well as blank ammo for euro replica firearms

[Mytmousemalibu]

These come in both flavors, steel and brass. That step looks like a separate "ring" seated in there but is integral to the case. A product of being formed the way it is. Its found in cheap FMJ like MaxxTech, Igman, Pobjeda and others from Bosnia and Herzegovina. Also used extensively by Freedom Munitions which it wore the IMT headstamp and later FM.

I hand deprime all my brass and cull this garbage and others out of brass in my circulation. Its still worth scrap brass value so i save it for that. I refuse to load it after seeing it fracture and have a case head separation. As mentioned, the case volume is less than standard brass by enough to be dangerous if you are running powders with small min/max charge limit spreads or just large charges overall. Not worth risking it. I load pretty damn hot 9mm for USPSA open and don't want it getting mixed in with the rest of the brass.

I suspect it was a cheap way to get uniform seating depth with less precise manufacturing of cartridges. Maybe cheaper to make or cheaper case drawing dies? Either way, its junk. Anyone that knows anything about stress and fatigue can see that sharp step in the body of the brass is a stress riser. And thus it fractures at the step.

[Electric88]

Ugh. I didn't think about the problems this type of case could present.

Now I have to sort through 10k pieces of brass before reloading it

[sargenv]

Actually had one of our more experienced reloaders do testing on these cases (the Brass ones) and they weren't any more prone to ringing and leaving the top portion of the brass in the chamber as any other case.. He's very thorough and I trust him. He found no increased level of case failure over regular brass. (He's actually been lurking in the forums here learning how to separate lead from fired jacketed bullets.. I turned him onto this site when he mentioned an interest in casting).

[Mytmousemalibu]

I have personally culled out a couple that had a partial crack and a handful with a bright ring on the outside, incipient case head separation. Two or three guys in our club had it fracture and leave the forward ring in the chamber. I've seen all i need to see. 9mm brass is cheap and sometimes even free, i have a pile of 9mm brass, I can afford to not take my chances.

[jsn]

My thoughts were that the IMT inner ring was way too far down to be used to prevent bullet setback, and even after looking at them again with 147gr FMJ's I still think so. Maybe subguns, like early Glocks, have unsupported chambers?

I'm wondering if the people experiencing case separations are reloading them like "normal" 9mm cases. I read on a number of forums that some people simply will not sort 9mm, 40S&W, 38 Special, etc. for reloading. From what I see in my sorting and records these IMT cases are about 15% heavier than the average of the lightest 9mm brass I have. Pressure curves are somewhat linear--until they're not.

Either way, I only have like 100 or so, and since they're a stress and fatigue point I'll scrap them too.

[marlin39a]

Another 9mm culprit has the headstamp - Ammoload - big ring in lower case.

[Ola]

Maybe the factory is using the same cases they use in blank rounds? That would explain the sharp step in the case.