Been looking on the web for a while to see what the best upper receiver for a Fal is and I have come up with the DS Arms unit. They are a machined unit as opposed to a casting as most seem to be. So, are there anymore fal uppers out there that are machined from a solid block of steel like the DS Arms unit is?
I have built about a dozen FAL since 2001. The best receivers are:
1. Argentine FMAP (usually marked Century Sporter and having a serial number that starts with a C and ends with 4 numbers - CXXXX)
2. Imbel (Brazil) Gear Logo (Has an engraved gear shaped logo and says Imbel)
3. Imbel May be marked sporter or some such, seen on Century built guns post 1995
4. Dan Coonan
5. Some rare types such as Onyx that have high price because of rarity and historical reference, some are imported, some are small domestic lots with ordinary pricing like Armscorp, some include the british recievered guns that came in thru Canada as LEO sales guns and have made their way into the secondary market.
6. Entreprise (early pre-2001 are generally good, later ones problematic in terms of tolerancing. Buena Park marked are pre-ban. Irwindale marked are post ban.
7. DSA I put last because their quality is overstated and the customer service is awful, with Dave Selvagio running a clear first in the ******* businessman competition. Anything good you read about DSA is propaganda written by their shills.
8. Hesse - well, they are really last, in terms of quality.
unfortunately, DSA seems to be the only current producer, and none of the others are castings except the Coonan. Speaking as a steel products quality engineer, i can tell you that the investment casting used in making the Coonan is just as strong as the machined billet receivers. You are thinking about AR15 receivers with weak castings...this doesn't translate into the steel receiver world.
Last edited by justashooter; 10-06-2016 at 12:24 PM.
go to http://www.falfiles.com/forums and all your questions will be answered, but yes other's machined from forged billet.
je suis charlie
It is better to live one day as a LION than a dozen days as a Sheep.
Thomas Jefferson Quotations:
"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."
I guess I should have been a bit more specific. I was asking about current available receivers that I can purchase new not something used that will never find in my neck of the woods. I am specific in that I want a FORGED receiver machined out of a solid block of steel as opposed to a investment casting such as the coonan unit. I have read a number of comments about the cast receivers stretching after firing. I have experience in the field also being a machinist and a quality control supervisor. I will opt for the quality piece even if it cost in the neighborhood of $500 or more. I'm going to build this once the right way the first time around. The only receivers I have been able to pull up are the coonan and the DSArms units. I would have thought there would have been more manifacturers out there.
Not Domestic there isn't - The profit margin with parts kits coming in without barrels isn't much worth the effort
je suis charlie
It is better to live one day as a LION than a dozen days as a Sheep.
Thomas Jefferson Quotations:
"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."
you missed the boat by about 10 years, friend. your best bet today might be to scavenge an older receiver from a less desireable existing build, or find such a receiver on the FALFILES Marketplace. they are posted frequently.Originally Posted by 6bg6ga
as for the integrity of the various receivers, as you should know, it's mostly in the heat treatment plan, which varied widely among the different manufacturers...
I did see a group buy on the Fal files marketplace. I don't know however if it would be any better of a buy than a new one from DSArms for the same price.
In looking on the marketplace on the fal files they have a group buy on an Imbel type three receiver I believe which wouldn't be correct with my type I lower. I'll stick with the DSArms upper.
NOS 2001 gear logo are head and tails above DSA (dumb **** arms), but it seems that you are intent on a dsa, no matter what advise you get, so why ask?
Dude, I don't want a type III upper with my type I lower. Sounds like you have a problem with DSArms. If it was a type II upper receiver you would see me purchasing one. After reading account after account from knowledgeable FAL builders and non-professional people that have built a number of FALS I will go with what seems to work the best 95% of the time. The DSArms upper receiver is machined from a solid block of steel and then heat treated instead of being a cast piece. If I were wanting to cut corners I would have purchased the cheapest kit not the Israeli Heavy Barrel Kit for $1200.00 Ive found cheaper uppers but I choose to go with a quality piece instead of saving $200 on a cheap upper. There was one the other day on gun broker starting at $250 and I passed.
Unless from a special(foreign govt) contract overrun, DSA FAL receivers with Serials higher than "DSA28388" are cast, regardless of what their website says. Straight from the horses mouth about a year ago.
Regardless I still want a type II receiver and the DSArms unit seems to go together with a lot less hassle.
purism in the FAL world is a fantasy, unless you buy an original import. no kit gun will ever be totally correct. yes, I have bought several DSA guns that were utter ****, and required substantial work to bring into reliable function, and yes, I have built over a dozen FAL and owned more than a dozen that I didn't build, so I do have basis for an opinion. and don't tell a metallurgist and steel products engineer what you know about metals, cause he always knows more. $1200? how sad. my first heavy barrel build cost me about negative $75, by the time I figured the entire 6 gun trade-buy-build out. the golden days are gone, sucker.
Dude, crawl back under the rock you came from and stay there please. Unfortunately you chose to answer a thread I started. Personally I believe you should be seeing a shrink instead of posting here but I cannot stop you. From what you posted above it is apparent that you haven't had the best luck in putting fal kits together because either you purchased junk kits or you lack the skill to do so. I on the other hand do have the mechanical skill being I was a master machinist for years. I know how to machine parts and assemble them so that a working unit can continue to work for a lifetime. With respect to your metallurgical skills... I do not pretend to have a degree in that field. I am however capable enough to read up on the particular faults of individual manufacturers. I will not pretend to think that a cast upper receiver will have the same strength as one that has been machined from a solid block of steel and then heat treated. As for my expenditure of $1200.00 for a pristine Israeli Heavy barrel kit in todays dollars...... first of all I can afford to purchase a kit that is almost virgin. Yes, I will admit that I should have purchased fal kits years ago but at that time they weren't on my list of guns I wished to own at the time. I guess going toward the twilight of my life its my last ditch effort to purchase what I haven't owned before. Thank you for what you have posted so far but I sincerely hope you do not burden yourself to post again on this thread because you have absolutely nothing positive to contribute in my opinion.
The information in the post below was taken from the FAL FILES which are considered to be the best for information concerning Fal's and Fal builds.
Last edited by 6bg6ga; 10-14-2016 at 06:27 AM.
The above information was taken off the FAL Files............................ It would seem that the DSA uppers are considered to be of good quality there.
I think it narrows down to billet vers a cast piece in my investigations are correct. A billet is probably a rolled section of steel which is CNC machined. I'm not a metallurgist nor do I claim to be one. Based on my experiences in the real world machining parts I am heavily leaning to the billet because based on my experiences they will lack the voids that are so common with cast pieces. Another possibility is the billet could be an extruded piece which would also be fine. As mentioned above...the DSArms upper is the ONLY one that is machined from a billet and the rest are CAST.
I would take a good, hard look at the your new DSA when it arrives. The older ones were indeed forged billet steel , the current ones are not. But even a cast receiver can be serviceable when done right, just look at Ruger receivers which are all cast.
And yes , I have several Fal rifles, all built on older DSA receivers. When examined side by side the difference between a type one, and a type two FAL is not very evident.
Dsa customer service for me has been. first class
Well, I had the chance to examine a Coonan receiver and I wasn't impressed with it. A good friend of mine has a number of fal's with DSA uppers on them and says they simply go together better and function correctly unlike so other receivers. At any rate the price seems to be the same between the receivers.
some people just make up their minds that they are right, and then, you can't help them.
anyway, I have bought and built dozens of FAL kits from many different countries, from pristine unissued, to really beater stuff. the beaters tended to go together more readily, and ran just as well, if not better. I have built everything from belt fed to sub-gun, to garden gun, to double rifle. tell me how many dozen guns you have built, and how many are of your own unique design. I'm listening.
I spent 9 years in foundry shop perfecting casting process in high strength heat treated steel alloys similar to the alloys used in FAL receiver manufacture. a correctly moulded casting will be entirely free of defect, and will have more uniform multi-axial mechanical properties than billet steel, which tends to demonstrate an x-y-z differential of 100-90-70. yes, you heard that right. I said that castings can be heat treated, too, and that they are mechanically superior to billet if done right.
as for your 1200$, it will have bought you a paperweight, my friend. you will find that an HB is uncomfortable to shoulder, and to carry. with the select fire function disabled, an HB is the last gun that gets picked up in any collection. sure, I have 2 of my own, but I haven't fired them in years. HB were intended to be used for supportive bursts to gain momentary suppressive superiority, while using interchangeable magazines. on the battlefield they have proven to be of little value.
that being said, they do look cool to novices.
Posting Permissions
| BP | Bronze Point | IMR | Improved Military Rifle | PTD | Pointed |
| BR | Bench Rest | M | Magnum | RN | Round Nose |
| BT | Boat Tail | PL | Power-Lokt | SP | Soft Point |
| C | Compressed Charge | PR | Primer | SPCL | Soft Point "Core-Lokt" |
| HP | Hollow Point | PSPCL | Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" | C.O.L. | Cartridge Overall Length |
| PSP | Pointed Soft Point | Spz | Spitzer Point | SBT | Spitzer Boat Tail |
| LRN | Lead Round Nose | LWC | Lead Wad Cutter | LSWC | Lead Semi Wad Cutter |
| GC | Gas Check |
Reply With Quote