Rending WW without sorting?

[NavyVet1959]

Having a lid for the pot that you can hold in front of it like a shield can help if there is a visit from the tinsel fairie.

The lid also helps hold the heat in so it heats up quicker.

[old turtle]

I once got my some of my wheel weight lead contaminated with zinc. I sort now as I lost that batch of lead. I was VERY upset and spouted many unrepeatable phrases. You then can sell the zinc and lead ww's as scrap.

[lightman]

I'm another that takes the time to sort. I smelt in a pot that will hold 400# or so and it can get really hot on the bottom before the upper layer melts. So I just sort them. And yeah, sorting is a real PITA!

[edwardware]

. . . I smelt in a pot that will hold 400# or so and it can get really hot on the bottom before the upper layer melts. . .

And here I thought I was doing good at 600# a year!

[JWFilips]

Why even ask the question Just sort them!

[lightman]

And here I thought I was doing good at 600# a year!

600# a year is doing good in my opinion. I'm winding down but I still have about 3 or maybe 4 batches to do. I like the big pot because you can move pretty quickly once you get started and you have a large batch of alloy that is all the same. You do need several ingot molds to keep up the pace. And a handful of Aleve once you're finished!

[selmerfan]

Here's how I do it. I used to sort everything out. Total PITA and took forever. Now I dump them out onto the clean garage floor and, wearing leather gloves, swiftly sort out the obvious trash, SOWW, bolts, nuts, stems, Fe/Zinc weights that catch my eye. Then I fire up the pot (big dutch oven) and fill it with weights. Once the first batch gets me a liquid base (stirring regularly), I flux with beeswax, skim out the clips and non-lead stuff. Add more weights, keeping it just hot enough to be more liquid than slurry. I repeat until I have a full pot, then flux and clean well and pour into ingots. Repeat as needed. Much less time than diligent sorting and have yet to get any zinc contamination from over-heating.

[osteodoc08]

Be careful adding to melted lead. You're inviting the tinsel fairy.

Sort what you've got. No sense in potentially making an unusable alloy

[shoot-n-lead]

Be careful adding to melted lead. You're inviting the tinsel fairy.

Sort what you've got. No sense in potentially making an unusable alloy

I have rendered every bucket bucket of ww's that I have ever gotten(gobs of buckets) unsorted, and have yet to have unusable alloy...or any issue at all.

Just have to keep the temp right...which is no problem at all.

Y'all can hand sort all y'all want...not me.

[Big Boomer]

After finding one zinc wheelweight floating in the melt after sorting clip-on wheel weights, I realized that I could have made a really big mistake by not sorting/determining even more carefully. Now I use a pair of cutters or pliers to test every wheel weight, except for those I can identify by sight as being lead (scarring of the wheel weight when removed from a wheel - doesn't happen with zinc or steel). Yes, it is a lot of work but I have absolute confidence in the several 5-gallon buckets of ingots I have smelted over the years. I keep clip-on wheel weights separate from stick-on. When I cast boolits all I have to do is add a little tin solder and get really fine results. Most of the time I water-drop the boolits and that helps keep leading down or eliminated entirely. Big Boomer

[edwardware]

After finding one zinc wheelweight floating in the melt after sorting clip-on wheel weights, I realized that I could have made a really big mistake by not sorting/determining even more carefully. Now I use a pair of cutters or pliers to test every wheel weight. . .

I pick 2-3 zinc WWs off the melt with the clips and trash each time I refill the pot, even after sorting. They float, just like the iron WWs.

I can quickly tell how hot the pot has gotten (and maintain below 750F) by the reaction when I apply sawdust. Using my mix of pine and cedar dust, once I start seeing a rapid charring of the dust, I'm approaching 700F, and it's time to add WWs or finish skimming trash. A slower reaction means I'm still below 700F, and not in danger of melting the zinc.

[1988-4551]

I think I'm going to have to pay more attention to sorting feel like I'm the odd man out.

[ghh3rd]

I'm considering firing up the pot, starting with a couple inches of lead at ~675F, and adding the unsorted WW a few handfuls at a time. The trash will burn, and the non-lead bits will float. Even when I do sort, I usually pick out a few zinc weights that I missed anyway, so I can't see why this won't work.

I did it that way the last couple of times I had buckets to process. I started out with about and inch of known lead, not very much above melting, dropped a handful of whatever was in the bucket (didn't take care to remove razor blades, rubber pieces, etc. unless it was convenient to pick out) and soon the lead WW melted and the other stuff including Zinc WW floated and were scooped out.

You have to be very careful with the heat, keeping it just hot enough to melt the lead, allowing the Zinc to float and be promptly removed, or you will get an 'undesirable' alloy

The more the melt increased, the more I could put in at a time. It's funny how those rubber valve stems just float around and don't really burn, although they do stink!

[RogerDat]

I use a tray to sort. Plastic drawer from one of those stackable office sets, lid from printer paper box or cardboard tray from canned goods at store all work well.
Set butt in comfortable chair, set tray on lap, set buckets for stick on, clip on, zinc and trash convenient to the chair and sort one tray at a time. Reloading tray after each batch. Quick visual check for known bad, then use diagonal cutters (dikes) to nip test the ones that appear to be lead. 100% check BUT I'm sitting comfortable, the distance and movements are short and waste little time since I am working right in my lap. I also don't get a backache from bending and reaching.

In 900# of WW's melted down I found one floater that was zinc. I pile the dutch oven full, then as the bottom ones melt causing the pile to settle I add more to the top of the pile, thus new WW's added are always pre-warmed and I end up with a full pot which seems more efficient in terms of time and fuel during the melt operation. If I did not check and sort I would risk having zinc WW's trapped on the bottom of the pile where they could get hot enough to melt. Adding more WW's to the top would keep them pinned down. Over 100# of lead in the pot who wants zinc contamination of that much lead?

I am on acreage but not that much and have neighbors who might find burning tire stems and patches a bit offensive or bothersome. I can tell when they have grill cooking, smell the charcoal when started and the food when cooking, pretty sure that means they would get at least some whiff of my WW trash stink. Watch TV and sort, or listen to the game and sort. Not costing me any time since I would be just sitting there otherwise. Ok I might be de-priming or sorting brass but WW sorting is no big hardship a few buckets at a time.

[mold maker]

It's strange to me that folks, that measure powder to the 1/10 of a grain, and measure boolits to the ten thousandth would be so casual about melting lead.
The boolit is the major cost, and it's flight is the object of the whole operation.
Why not spend the time necessary to guarantee the best possible results? After all, we can buy ready made and avoid the whole hassle.
If your caviler about sorting, what else do you just do, "Good enough"?

[NavyVet1959]

It's strange to me that folks, that measure powder to the 1/10 of a grain, and measure boolits to the ten thousandth would be so casual about melting lead.
The boolit is the major cost, and it's flight is the object of the whole operation.
Why not spend the time necessary to guarantee the best possible results? After all, we can buy ready made and avoid the whole hassle.
If your caviler about sorting, what else do you just do, "Good enough"?

Not all of us are doing long range shooting. Besides, if you are one of those who is smelting range lead, do you really know what alloy you end up getting?

[matrixcs]

I have tried it many ways. I have decided that sort first works best for me.
I find that it is a pay me now or pay me later situation.
If is do not sort then everything looks faster but..
when you toss in zinc and steel that you do not need to melt then
the temp drops more and more time is needed to get back up to temp and
if you are keeping a lower temp to not melt zinc then goes solid and takes longer to remelt..
liquid lead transfers heat much faster than solidified lead as lead is a poor heat conductor.

[shoot-n-lead]

Not all of us are doing long range shooting. Besides, if you are one of those who is smelting range lead, do you really know what alloy you end up getting?

Bingo...my not sorting ww's poses no problem for me...my bullets still do everything that I want them to do.

Like I said, do as you want...just don't try to tell me that what I am doing, doesn't work, cause it has worked for me...for years. If it did not work...I would change the way I do it.

For my casting and shooting, 100yd acceptable hunting accuracy is good enough. Over the years, my son and I have yet to send even ONE of our cast bullets toward an animal and it failed to do the job. This is the litmus test that I use to determine if what I am doing, is working. Now, if I want to chase one hole groups at longer range...I will go to jacketed bullets and not piss with making cast work for that application.

[RogerDat]

Yeah it is sort of hard to say it don't work to folks that have done it successfully for a number of years. Sort of like telling a bumble bee it can't fly because his wings are not large enough. How much of your WW's are zinc makes a big difference. The stuff from years ago it was a pretty much a non-issue, in some states or sources zinc WW's are rare, from other states or sources the zinc can be 50% of the bucket.

I would be very careful adding any metal to molten lead, thus if I was going to do "no sort" smelting of WW's I would get a really large pot, one that allowed me a decent sized batch without adding to it after the initial fill up. You keep piling stuff on top like myself or some of the others who have posted and you will eventually end up with some zinc trapped against bottom which will have more heat than the melt itself. Maybe enough to melt the zinc ones in contact with the bottom. Worth noting that some tests done by Banger Jim as well as others indicate that a modest amount of zinc does not ruin the lead for casting, might change the cast size or weight by a tiny amount but below 4% still useable to cast it just gets more difficult and has to be done at hotter temps.

[John Boy]

Does anyone have any experience doing this?

Control the temperature for the zincs - all the dross floats to the top - spoon off - ladle out the lead and your done!
Probably a couple of tons done this way ... and I can't remember how many times this topic has been discussed on the forum. Not something new