TC Hot Shot barrels-questions?

[jmsj]

Hey Guys,
A guy brought me a TC Contender with 4 barrels that he bought and wanted me to do some work on. Two of the barrels have regular rifling through most of the barrel then a screw section with straight grooves/rifling on them that is way smaller than bore size. One is a 357 magnum octagon barrel with the choke threaded internally and the choke section extends past the end of the barrel and the other is a 44 magnum round barrel with the choke threaded internally and the choke section is inside the barrel. The owner does not really want to shoot shotshells but wants to shoot bullets out of these. On the 357 with the external threads, I don't see a problem shooting solid projectiles with the choke removed but the 44 with it's internal threads worries me. I guess I could make a larger than bore size smooth bore piece threaded to go inside the barrel or turn the "rifling"out of the choke that came with the barrel. I will try to post some pictures if I can find my camera.
I have researched these on the web and have found out that they are called "Hot Shot" barrels and the smaller than bore size straight rifling was intended to straighten out flight of the shot and shatter the shot capsule. This is about the extent of the information I could find on these barrels. Any additional information would be appreciated.
Thanks, jmsj

[fryboy]

shouldnt shoot bullets ( nor boolits ) thru them , fine ( and fun ) to shoot with the chokes removed however , they make a special lil tool to take the choke out/off ( naturally called a choke wrench :P ) i have two much like you describe ( except different calibers ) the hotshots are also fun and if you can find the empty capsules you can choose shot size as well as power to some degree , umm i'm not sure that there is much more info about them honestly , i supoose that you could drill out the chokes if desired ( about the only way for the built in muzzle break on the 357 to work is with the choke on , the internal choke is no problem , just screw it out and when done shooting clean the threads and screw it back in , mine has the vent rib and the flip up sites actually work pretty good , i suppose if you really want to get rid of the choke you could shorten the barrel and add a new front sight [shrugz]

[Stork]

Fryboy,
Are the capsules still available and if not any idea of their worth?

I only ask because a close friend of mine has 3 boxes of 357 #6 shot capsules. He got them in a trade and knew I shot contenders and wanted to know if I wanted them (they don't fit in the 22 or 7 TCU barrel so I passed) and I'd like to help him sell them if I could.

Stork

[jmsj]

fryboy,
Thanks for the reply.
I just went and fired both of these barrels without the chokes installed and they did fine. I was just worried about firing the long term without the chokes installed and possibly damaging the threads.
I thought about shortening the 44 barrel and reinstalling the front sight also but I think that would be way more than the owner wants to put into it.
The 357 is built differently and I think that boring out the choke to slightly over bore diameter would work. I don't know if these barrels have any collector value and would hate to start cutting them up. If they were worth something I would recommend that he sell them and get regular barrels.
I can't imagine what would happen if someone fired full house magnum load with one of these chokes installed. Must have been a liability nightmare for TC.
Thanks for the reply, jmsj

[fryboy]

the 357 is akin to my 45 colt , the 44 is a twin i believe lolz , i dont believe the capsules are still made , i run across them from time to time at gun shows , both as loaded ammo - woot factory !! and as empty and full capsules , somewhere i have some limited ( albeit old ) loading data , as to value ...honestly i cant even begin to guess . i do know that depending upon storage conditions some can be quite fragile ( umm much like any ammo , yet the thin blue plastic can deteriorate as well ) # 8 shot can dust a clay pigeon if you can get on it quick ( yet that's hard to do lolz ) as for collector value ( both barrels and rounds ) again i cant begin to guess , we have to figure that some one somewhere will collect anything so .... . i do know that there's a fellow here or two who happen to like ye olde octagon barrels , myself i love the longer bull barrels , one thing i wouldnt wish on anyone is shooting a old octagon barrel in 30-30 with heavy factory rounds ,the 30 carbine also has quite a bit of muzzle blast
the only way i can see him messing up the threads is by improper cleaning ( gumount carb cleaner is my fav along with a nylon brush ) or cross threading them , a lil lube is advised on the threads ( and that also helps make clean up easier in my humble opinion , the chokes seem in ample supply so you could possibly get spares and then bore them out instead if you wish ( perhaps ample because so many people take them off and rarely use them ?? )
because of the closed breech even with the loss of a couple of inches because of the chokes ( be they on or off ) they still usually have a lil more FPS than say a comparable revolver , usually when i see these barrels they are priced a lil below regular type barrels leaving me to suggest that he just shoot and enjoy them ( btw ? you're welcome )

[Got-R-Did]

Jmsj, instead of converting an existing choke (spare or original to the gun) are you able to machine an internal smoothbore thread protector using the choke as a pattern? You could then build a key to fit the slots machined into the muzzle end of the thread protector similar to Benelli style chokes. Just a thought.
That said, I can't imagine someone shooting these old Octagon bbls in the .44 Mag so much that they would foul the threads to the point of making cleaning them out again impossible. I will say that improper cleaning technique would do more damage to the internal threads than shooting bullets past them, in spite of the significant volumes of very hot gases the cartridge produces.
Just a thought.
Got-R-Did.

[leadman]

I had one of the old octogan 44mag hot shot barrels. Even with light 44 loads the recoil was pretty snappy.

[GBertolet]

I have one of the 44 Hot-Shot barrels with the external choke. The recoil is significant, even with the factory muzzle brake. Even worse shooting full power 44 mag ammo. I know some owners that rechambered to 444 Marlin, and load them just like brass shotshells, getting decent results.

[dale2242]

I have a 44 Hot Shot barrel with the internal choke.
I don`t shoot 44 mag boolits through it because I have other 44s I prefer. DO Not shoot bullets or boolits through it with the choke in.
It is the best grouse and quail truck gun I have. It will shoot nearly as well as a .410 shot gun with the original capsules. Better than any shot load, EVER, in a rifled barrel.
I got lucky with the ammo. a buddy had LOTS of loaded ammo and extra capsules left after he had his gun stolen.
I pick up the capsules whenever i can find them. BTW you need a special seating die for loading the capsules.....dale

[SantaFe66]

I recognize this is an old thread, but I have some questions regarding these .44 Hot Shot loads. Mine is the 10" (or so) octagon barrel with external choke and I used it extensively when I lived in Alaska to shoot Ptarmigan. Very effective and good to 20 yards or more if you do your part well. Nasty recoil with .44 Mag ammo without the choke. I have accumulated 5 boxes or so of loaded Hot Shot cartridges with various shot sizes as well as one box of unloaded capsules. My questions concern loading info for the unloaded capsules. I also wasn't aware of the need for a special seating die but can sure see why it would be needed. The capsules are pretty fragile and I would need OAL data for reloading and the seating die as well. Does anyone here have the old T/C reloading information from 1985 or so? I'd sure like to get an email and scan of that manual. Also, If anyone has the dies for loading these,.....I'm interested.

Update: Found one of the old T/C load booklets on ebay. It's titled "Making your Contender Perform!". Granted it's old, but interspersed with all the data for various established cartridges is the data for the .357 and .44 Hot Shot cartridges (the 45 Colt/.410 came later than this booklet). The .44 Hot Shot data only has loadings for Bullseye powder, 7.0, 7.5, and 8.0 grains and the 5/8 oz of shot and 9.0 gr for the .357. There is no OAL info but it does say to use the seating die which is presumably the RCBS die set specially made for these. If you find that set it will be dearly priced. OAL shouldn't be any big thing as the leade on these is obvious by checking the chamber. I measured a factory .44 cartridge and it's OAL was 2.184 or so. Since I have an assortment of shot sizes the OAL varied a bit. The velocity for these is 1125 to over 1200 so they aren't wimpy.

I have looked all over and haven't found any empty shot capsules. If someone finds them, please let me know. I do have 50 capsules that are loaded with #9 shot but haven't been loaded in brass yet. I covet those. There is load data in a Speer manual for their shot capsules and I've loaded some of those. The T/C loads are much more effective. If you're going to load some of the Speer capsules, #12 shot is way more effective for snakes than the #9 that Speer uses. The only issue with them is the light pellets lose velocity fast so you have to be within 10 ft.

[ubetcha]

I think one can still get the plastic shot capsules. I believe they are made by Speer. Thought I saw them in Grafs & Sons catalog. The Speer capsule's are shaped a little different that the one's that were available at the time when the barrels first came out. If memory serve's me right , I think the loaded round's that one could get had a rounded nose were as the Speer are flat nosed. The Speer capsules come empty so you can put your own shot it them. The chokes must be removed from the barrel when shooting boolits/bullets. When I bought my first T/C contender( which I still use in silhouette matches) came with the 357 Hot Shot barrel because that the only thing my LGS had at the time and I really wanted a Contender. The next bbl I bought was the Super 14 in 30/30, and that's the one I still use along with my new G2 in 357 Max.

[dead dog]

SantaFe66 I have an old book Making your Contender perform. The 44 hot shot data is 7.0 grains bullseye 1129 fps 7.5 1179 fps 8.0 1218 fps win or rem cases and primers 5/8 oz shot. To load full length resize and reprime case. Bell mouth slightly to facilitate entry of plastic capsule. Put in powder charge (see loads above). Insert capsule with flat end down. Seat capsule in seating die and crimp case . 8.0 grains recommended for optimum performance.

[Tatume]

The 45/410 Contender barrel was pretty inaccurate if you shot bulleted ammo through the choke, but it wasn't much better if the choke was removed. Having done so accidentally on several occasions, I never noticed anything dangerous about it. It may SEEM LIKE it should be dangerous, but like many things that "just make sense," it doesn't.

I also have the 44 Hot Shot barrel, and although I've never fired a bullet through the choke in this one, I don't fire many bullets without the choke either. It is just not accurate enough to be interesting.

My suggestion is to sell the barrels and fore ends and buy 10" Contender barrels. In the end they will be much more satisfactory.

[Leadmelter]

I have a 44 mag 10" bull barrel. Not for the weak hearted. I was shooting some 250 gr Keith with 19.5 gr 2400. After a box, I had a blister in the palm of my hand. It took over a week to grow over.
FYI
Leadmelter
MI

[kenyerian]

My grandsons cracked the choke tube in my 45/410 barrel by shooting boolits through it. I had to get a new choke tube for it.

[SantaFe66]

What seating die do you use for an OAL of 2.158"? Not sure, but I don't think the std 44 Mag seater will work.

[dale2242]

I have a set of RCBS loading dies for the 44 Hot Shot.
It comes with a special 44 Hot Shot seating die.
Contact RCBS about a seating die....dale

[vh2q]

I have a 45LC barrel with internal threads, never been able to find a choke tube for it. TC Arms says they are NLA. I notice the chamber is super long (for 410 ctgs I presume) and also I have struggled to get good accuracy from the barrel with normal 45LC jacketed loads. I attribute this to the long chamber. Anyone else have this experience? Anyone have a line on a choke for my barrel? If so PM appreciated. NEVER MIND MAGNUM RESEARCH HAS THESE CHOKES IN STOCK

[Lonegun1894]

I don't have an extra choke to help you with your .45/.410 barrel, but based on experience with mine, I would recommend considering it a .410 only and getting a dedicated .44 Mag or .45 Colt barrel for shooting boolits accurately.

[3leggedturtle]

Cast boolits won't hurt the internal threads. My 44 hotshot barrel has been so coated with lead it was smooth. 10 minutes with a copper chore-boy took it all out.