Blessings are Earned

[jmort]

I don't get why the usual blow-hard cannot have a civil discussion about something he disagrees with. The Bible instructs that God be tested in a single area, and that area is giving. Not like a slot machine or ATM or even a reward on earth, but that seems implied as well as a heavenly reward. Too many people are afraid of the Bible. The blow-hard is the last person/elder you want showing up from your church when you are on the bed of affliction. You would end up with some wishy-washy prayer, "God I know you probably won't heal this man, but I'm going through the motions. Amen."
So what is the one area we are instructed to test God?:

Parallel Verses

New International Version

Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this," says the LORD Almighty, "and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that there will not be room enough to store it.

New Living Translation

Bring all the tithes into the storehouse so there will be enough food in my Temple. If you do," says the LORD of Heaven's Armies, "I will open the windows of heaven for you. I will pour out a blessing so great you won't have enough room to take it in! Try it! Put me to the test!

English Standard Version

Bring the full tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. And thereby put me to the test, says the LORD of hosts, if I will not open the windows of heaven for you and pour down for you a blessing until there is no more need.

New American Standard Bible

"Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, so that there may be food in My house, and test Me now in this," says the LORD of hosts, "if I will not open for you the windows of heaven and pour out for you a blessing until it overflows.

King James Bible

Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be roomenough to receive it.

Holman Christian Standard Bible

Bring the full tenth into the storehouse so that there may be food in My house. Test Me in this way," says the LORD of Hosts. "See if I will not open the floodgates of heaven and pour out a blessing for you without measure.

International Standard Version

"Bring the entire tithe into the storehouse that there may be food in my house. So put me to the test in this right now," says the LORD of the Heavenly Armies, "and see if I won't throw open the windows of heaven for you and pour out on you blessing without measure.

NET Bible

"Bring the entire tithe into the storehouse so that there may be food in my temple. Test me in this matter," says the LORD who rules over all, "to see if I will not open for you the windows of heaven and pour out for you a blessing until there is no room for it all.

GOD'S WORD® Translation

"Bring one-tenth of your income into the storehouse so that there may be food in my house. Test me in this way," says the LORD of Armies. "See if I won't open the windows of heaven for you and flood you with blessings.

JPS Tanakh 1917

Bring ye the whole tithe into the store-house, That there may be food in My house, And try Me now herewith, Saith the LORD of hosts, If I will not open you the windows of heaven, And pour you out a blessing, That there shall be more than sufficiency.

New American Standard 1977

“Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, so that there may be food in My house, and test Me now in this,” says the LORD of hosts, “if I will not open for you the windows of heaven, and pour out for you a blessing until it overflows.

Jubilee Bible 2000

Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, and there shall be food in my house, and prove me now in this, said the LORD of the hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven and pour you out a blessing that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

King James 2000 Bible

Bring you all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house, and test me now in this, says the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

American King James Version

Bring you all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in my house, and prove me now herewith, said the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

American Standard Version

Bring ye the whole tithe into the store-house, that there may be food in my house, and prove me now herewith, saith Jehovah of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it .

Douay-Rheims Bible

Bring all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in my house, and try me in this, saith the Lord: if I open not unto you the flood-gates of heaven, and pour you out a blessing even to abundance.

Darby Bible Translation

Bring the whole tithe into the treasure-house, that there may be food in my house, and prove me now herewith, saith Jehovah of hosts, if I open not to you the windows of the heavens, and pour you out a blessing, till there be no place for it.

English Revised Version

Bring ye the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

Webster's Bible Translation

Bring ye all the tithes into the store-house, that there may be food in my house, and prove me now with this, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

World English Bible

Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house, and test me now in this," says Yahweh of Armies, "if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough for.

Young's Literal Translation

Bring in all the tithe unto the treasure-house, And there is food in My house; When ye have tried Me, now, with this, Said Jehovah of Hosts, Do not I open to you the windows of heaven? Yea, I have emptied on you a blessing till there is no space.

[jmort]

And the follow-on from Jesus

Parallel Verses

New International Version

Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."

New Living Translation

Give, and you will receive. Your gift will return to you in full--pressed down, shaken together to make room for more, running over, and poured into your lap. The amount you give will determine the amount you get back."

English Standard Version

give, and it will be given to you. Good measure, pressed down, shaken together, running over, will be put into your lap. For with the measure you use it will be measured back to you.”

Berean Study Bible

Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running over will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you."

Berean Literal Bible

Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure pressed down, shaken together, running over will they put into your lap. For with that measure you measure, it will be measured again to you."

New American Standard Bible

"Give, and it will be given to you. They will pour into your lap a good measure-- pressed down, shaken together, and running over. For by your standard of measure it will be measured to you in return."

King James Bible

Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

Holman Christian Standard Bible

Give, and it will be given to you; a good measure--pressed down, shaken together, and running over--will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you."

International Standard Version

Give, and it will be given to you. A large quantity, pressed together, shaken down, and running over will be put into your lap, because you'll be evaluated by the same standard with which you evaluate others."

NET Bible

Give, and it will be given to you: A good measure, pressed down, shaken together, running over, will be poured into your lap. For the measure you use will be the measure you receive."

Aramaic Bible in Plain English

“Give and it will be given to you in good measure, pressed down and overflowing, they shall cast into your lap. For with what measure you measure it will be measured to you.”

GOD'S WORD® Translation

Give, and you will receive. A large quantity, pressed together, shaken down, and running over will be put into your pocket. The standards you use for others will be applied to you."

New American Standard 1977

“Give, and it will be given to you; good measure, pressed down, shaken together, running over, they will pour into your lap. For by your standard of measure it will be measured to you in return.”

Jubilee Bible 2000

give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down and shaken together and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye measure out it shall be measured to you again.

King James 2000 Bible

Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your lap. For with the same measure that you measure it shall be measured to you again.

American King James Version

Give, and it shall be given to you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that you mete with it shall be measured to you again.

American Standard Version

give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, shaken together, running over, shall they give into your bosom. For with what measure ye mete it shall be measured to you again.

Douay-Rheims Bible

Give, and it shall be given to you: good measure and pressed down and shaken together and running over shall they give into your bosom. For with the same measure that you shall mete withal, it shall be measured to you again.

Darby Bible Translation

Give, and it shall be given to you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall be given into your bosom: for with the same measure with which ye mete it shall be measured to you again.

English Revised Version

give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, shaken together, running over, shall they give into your bosom. For with what measure ye mete it shall be measured to you again.

Webster's Bible Translation

Give, and it shall be given to you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye give to others, it shall be measured to you again.

Weymouth New Testament

give, and gifts shall be bestowed on you. Full measure, pressed, shaken down, and running over, shall they pour into your laps; for with the same measure that you use they shall measure to you in return."

World English Bible

"Give, and it will be given to you: good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running over, will be given to you. For with the same measure you measure it will be measured back to you."

Young's Literal Translation

'Give, and it shall be given to you; good measure, pressed, and shaken, and running over, they shall give into your bosom; for with that measure with which ye measure, it shall be measured to you again.'

[rl69]

Clay I think that has been the main misunderstanding in this thread. I know that I do not believe in the carrot and the stick approach. I liken it too a child wanting too please his father. And the father rewarding him for his effort. And if I never get that pat on the head,that's fine I still want to please him.

[skeettx]

My premise, It is about God, it is not about me.

Eph 2:8-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, {it is} the gift of God;
9 not as a result of works, that no one should boast.
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
(NAS)

That said, once in Fellowship with God (Saved) then we are to try to be more like Him and please Him (good works)

[Ickisrulz]

And the follow-on from Jesus

Parallel Verses

New International Version

Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."

New Living Translation

Give, and you will receive. Your gift will return to you in full--pressed down, shaken together to make room for more, running over, and poured into your lap. The amount you give will determine the amount you get back."

English Standard Version

give, and it will be given to you. Good measure, pressed down, shaken together, running over, will be put into your lap. For with the measure you use it will be measured back to you.”

Berean Study Bible

Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running over will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you."

Berean Literal Bible

Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure pressed down, shaken together, running over will they put into your lap. For with that measure you measure, it will be measured again to you."

New American Standard Bible

"Give, and it will be given to you. They will pour into your lap a good measure-- pressed down, shaken together, and running over. For by your standard of measure it will be measured to you in return."

King James Bible

Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

Holman Christian Standard Bible

Give, and it will be given to you; a good measure--pressed down, shaken together, and running over--will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you."

International Standard Version

Give, and it will be given to you. A large quantity, pressed together, shaken down, and running over will be put into your lap, because you'll be evaluated by the same standard with which you evaluate others."

NET Bible

Give, and it will be given to you: A good measure, pressed down, shaken together, running over, will be poured into your lap. For the measure you use will be the measure you receive."

Aramaic Bible in Plain English

“Give and it will be given to you in good measure, pressed down and overflowing, they shall cast into your lap. For with what measure you measure it will be measured to you.”

GOD'S WORD® Translation

Give, and you will receive. A large quantity, pressed together, shaken down, and running over will be put into your pocket. The standards you use for others will be applied to you."

New American Standard 1977

“Give, and it will be given to you; good measure, pressed down, shaken together, running over, they will pour into your lap. For by your standard of measure it will be measured to you in return.”

Jubilee Bible 2000

give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down and shaken together and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye measure out it shall be measured to you again.

King James 2000 Bible

Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your lap. For with the same measure that you measure it shall be measured to you again.

American King James Version

Give, and it shall be given to you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that you mete with it shall be measured to you again.

American Standard Version

give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, shaken together, running over, shall they give into your bosom. For with what measure ye mete it shall be measured to you again.

Douay-Rheims Bible

Give, and it shall be given to you: good measure and pressed down and shaken together and running over shall they give into your bosom. For with the same measure that you shall mete withal, it shall be measured to you again.

Darby Bible Translation

Give, and it shall be given to you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall be given into your bosom: for with the same measure with which ye mete it shall be measured to you again.

English Revised Version

give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, shaken together, running over, shall they give into your bosom. For with what measure ye mete it shall be measured to you again.

Webster's Bible Translation

Give, and it shall be given to you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye give to others, it shall be measured to you again.

Weymouth New Testament

give, and gifts shall be bestowed on you. Full measure, pressed, shaken down, and running over, shall they pour into your laps; for with the same measure that you use they shall measure to you in return."

World English Bible

"Give, and it will be given to you: good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running over, will be given to you. For with the same measure you measure it will be measured back to you."

Young's Literal Translation

'Give, and it shall be given to you; good measure, pressed, and shaken, and running over, they shall give into your bosom; for with that measure with which ye measure, it shall be measured to you again.'

Just for the record, this "promise" is concerning MERCY per its context. Be merciful and God will be merciful to you. This verse has nothing to do with anything material.

[Boaz]

In my church I am instructed to study the scripture and use it for a guide in my life . We are all drawn to different verse as part of GOD's plan for us as an individual , it is part of our personal relationship with him . The same message in verse could have different meaning to different people as is GOD's way , it's not an accident . I read and pray for guidance , much scripture is finite but much is applicable to different situations in combining verse. It's a combination of all with his plan for you . Without him directing you there is no understanding what his word means to you .

[jmort]

"...this "promise" is concerning MERCY per its context."

Makes sense in context. But there are many who take it in terms of giving. I tend to agree with you, but I find it to be a "blessing" that adds up:
http://biblehub.com/commentaries/luke/6-38.htm

[Ickisrulz]

"...this "promise" is concerning MERCY per its context."

Makes sense in context. But there are many who take it in terms of giving. I tend to agree with you, but I find it to be a "blessing" that adds up:
http://biblehub.com/commentaries/luke/6-38.htm

Tithing is not something mandated in the New Testament. It is part of the Old Covenant. The contract with Israel was primarily an earthly blessing in exchange for obedience. If Israel followed the Law, she would be blessed with material prosperity and peace. Part of the Law was giving a tenth of the material blessing back to God. Israel was not doing this when Malachi addressed it. Malachi said once Israel began following the Law again (tithing) she would be blessed.

Christian Jews in the New Testament continued to bring tithes and offerings. But this was for tradition and their way of life rather than a New Covenant requirement. There are passages dealing with money in the New Testament, of course. But these say we must advance the kingdom, take care of the truly poor and support God's ministers. Needs must be taken care of but there is no set amount we are required to give to God. There is no suggestion we will be blessed materially because we give.

I've heard the misuse of these verses on different occasions. It can be confusing unless one does their own research and understands the difference between Israel and the Church.

[Clay M]

I never harped on giving.
I told the people ,"You know what you are able to give, you know what the needs of the church are, and you know exactly where the money goes and how it is spent."" What you give is between you and God, and I don't want to know."

I never touched the plates.

We used the money for my meager salary, the building fund, and mission work.

I always believed in a church being active within the community and being involved in local missions.

I found that when people were involved in doing mission work, there was less bickering and discontentment.

[Blackwater]

I have now gone back over what's been written here several times, at various times, trying to discern where the antipathy has come from. And it still seems to me that here in this two dimensional realm, devoid of expression and tonal inflection and cadence and character of voice, it's all been generated from divergent understandings or perceptions of what some of the words herein stated really mean, and HOW they're meant. There's no weighting or intent discernable here in this two dimensional electronic realm. And nothing generates more passion than religious discussions! Add those two things together, and it's hard to have a genuinely effective discussion, especially when you add in man's (even believers') passions and perceptions into the mix.

I personally don't care what another Christian thinks, or if it differs from what I think. I only care whether he IS a Christian, and whether he displays it righteously. None of us always does that last, I'm afraid. It's our weaknesses coming out in various ways. And this, I think, is intended by God to be a caution light to us. I just hope we exercise our due diligence in heeding that caution light.

There's no need here for declarations of another Christian's lack of sincerity or understanding. That's a given for ALL of us, for not one among us, even the most studied, formally or otherwise, can ever know it ALL. I think this is intended by God to keep us humble, and humble folks don't generally attack their fellow Christians. But it DOES happen within our ranks, of course. it's a shame when it does, but the offenders always seem to have justifications for their offense, rather than a calm and Godly attitude toward their fellow Christians. So, as long as folks like that remain most prominent in our Faith, people around us will continue to get turned off to our message. What a waste and a shame and a tragedy that is! And it's NOT what we were advised to be about as followers of Christ. It's something we need to correct, I think, bu that's only my view, and no one man in Christianity can tell another what to do. Only to consider things. Then it's in the other's court to do with as they see fit. That's really all any of us CAN do. The rest is up to each of us as individuals, and the sincerity of our search for more and better answers.

[johnson1942]

man blackwater that was the best use of verbose in the transfering of guilt that i ever read. your a master of that. really really good. just proves my point. i could use your post in a psychology 101 class.

[Blackwater]

Whatever you want to make of it. That's up to YOU. You obviously think you've discovered the REAL Truth, and anyone else is just wrong. So be it. If you were as right as you seem to think, and were following Christ's very clear instructions, you'd post WHY you think that, but you don't. You just cast further aspersions at one who doesn't quite agree with you like you think I should. I'm OK with that. If you're not, it's your problem, not mine. I'm too busy searching for the Truth, and if you don't want to impart it, I'll just look elsewhere, but sometimes, that's what folks who take the tactic you have wanted anyway - a reserved and exclusive view that you don't and won't share with anybody. That seems TO ME to be in direct contradiction to what Christ admonished us to do, but you have your particular view, and it's not required in any way to be the exact same as mine. As has been said, belief is all it really takes, but that's just the start. Then, we have to "study to show thyself approved," and part of studying is getting it wrong. Some don't care whether or if they get it wrong, they just want an answer they can adopt and use as it pleases them. That's been going on for 2000 years now, and wasn't unknown even among the apostles in their earlier days of following Jesus. He had to train and even at times chastise them to shape them into what he intended for them to be, and what they'd HAVE to be to do what was ahead of them.

There's absolutely no psychology in that. It's just simple truth. If you failed to note it in your reading of the Bible, you might want to check it out once more, and note the parts you missed. Or not. Your call.

[johnson1942]

now you speaking for me and putting words in my mouth. man are you on a roll. it is very very easy to get you to show who and what you really are. i dont doubt your salvation, but you are a spoiled child who never ever grew up. bet your glowing like a light bulb now, you getting some attention. cant help your self can you? too late for you to grow up.

[Boaz]

That's what these type 'discussions' are good for .... causing hard feelings and hate . Not to mention what non believers think . The pit is the more appropriate place .

[johnson1942]

just trying to have him do some reality orientation and self refelection. the child needs to grow up. took enough of his **** and had him ruin enough good discussions, he needs, again, some reality orientation. that why they call it tough love, tough love is not enabeling. im comfortable im doing it right. i have had years of experiences in just this area. others have told me im on the right track here, he just ruins it so men of wisdom never ever post as they dont want to deal with him. again he ruins every good discussion that is started here and below. your right, it belong below but he brought it here so here it is.

[Boaz]

I'm not even upset , it always ends this way ......no purpose served . I'm not picking sides , I will believe /do what the Lord puts in my heart . We all should .

Anyone want to argue that ?

[DerekP Houston]

I'm not even upset , it always ends this way ......no purpose served . I'm not picking sides , I will believe /do what the Lord puts in my heart . We all should .

Anyone want to argue that ?

Actually that's exactly my philosophy. And to put my money where my mouth is I did go ahead and donate to the collection plate. I still rather donate to friends/family/deserving folks but I see the point about needing to help the church out with its financial obligations. I've been blessed quite a bit the past year even with the layoff.

[rl69]

It's kinda funny to hear about the offering plate. We don't pass one,we have a box in the back you can give if you fill lead.

how was y'all's service Derek ? What was it on ?

[Ickisrulz]

It's kinda funny to hear about the offering plate. We don't pass one,we have a box in the back you can give if you fill lead.

That is awesome. I have never been to a church that did that. From what I understand this was the method for accepting donations at the Temple in Jesus' time. I'd bet your method results in the same amount it would if the offering were taken in the middle of the service.

[rl69]

The AFCC is not a governing body,the churches that belong to it or not required to follow its suggestions. But from the cowboy churches I have visited it seams to be SOP.

We also do not do alter calls.the preacher will show anyone who want too give their life too Christ,how to pray he tells them you can do it right where your at, and that he and the lay pastors will be up front after service if you have questions or need prayers.