Lee classic cast w/ LNL conversion next to LNL AP

[mistermog]

Well.... shucks... hahah interesting guys!

[VHoward]

How about using a Lee size/deprime die and lightly lock the pin too low in the collet and measure its movement?

Make sure you use the same case in both machines but when it bottoms out on the bottom of the inside of the case it will be forced up in the die and remove "cam over" from the process and you can measure with the tools you already have.

Wait long enough and someone will come along with a neat idea. Cool.

[mistermog]

That's a fantastic idea, I'll have to try that this weekend, I found an annoying berdan primed 9mm case that would be perfect for this...

[allen16323]

Why not just lower the depth gauge on the dial caliper and use the ruler spanner discussed previously and run the ram a full cycle will give to you top end of the stroke. Just eliminates having to measure change in decapping pin length and give direct reading.

If that makes sense, something I can't convey thought process to words and not make is sound like jibber jabber.

[OS OK]

Couldn't you take the shell plate off the H-LNL and put a .006" washer type shim over the shell plate stud before placing the shell plate on the stud…thus raising the shell plate on the LNL? You could hone a thin washer to .006" on a sharpening stone or sacrifice a spark plug gage, one of those has about every thickness you might need. You would be thickening the bottom side of the shell plate effectively raising it…right?

I dunno…sometimes I just take a swag at something…OS OK

[mistermog]

I've been away from my press and haven't been able to try anything yet, I do like the idea of raising the ram while measuring. That would tell how much it cams over at least too pretty easily

[OS OK]

The cam over is liken to a piston rolling through top dead center. That feel is when the linkage alignment goes past a 180 degree where it is in the longest configuration in line and the press linkage relaxes as it goes from say…180 d. T.D.C. to -178 d. or thereabouts and stops and stays at the end of its physical travel stop. The press has done all it can to engage the die sets as designed when it is at the 180 d. point and the only die you want to set up that way is the old style sizing dies anyway. This camover thing is the flexing of the linkage parts under high mechanical pressure.
I'm not sure what this has to do with the strokes of each press being the same?
Aren't you concerned with seeing either press seating in the same maner, same depth…it is not suppose to cam over on a seating die.

Confused..OS OK

[drfroglegs]

The cam over is liken to a piston rolling through top dead center. That feel is when the linkage alignment goes past a 180 degree where it is in the longest configuration in line and the press linkage relaxes as it goes from say…180 d. T.D.C. to -178 d. or thereabouts and stops and stays at the end of its physical travel stop. The press has done all it can to engage the die sets as designed when it is at the 180 d. point and the only die you want to set up that way is the old style sizing dies anyway. This camover thing is the flexing of the linkage parts under high mechanical pressure.
I'm not sure what this has to do with the strokes of each press being the same?
Aren't you concerned with seeing either press seating in the same maner, same depth…it is not suppose to cam over on a seating die.

Confused..OS OK

There are two different concepts of "cam-over" that are traditionally discussed. The first is with regards to the sizing die setup where you will adjust the die against the shell plate and then add an extra 1/4 turn. The idea behind this is it makes sure the sizing die is always flush against the shell holder as it sizes the shoulder. When people talk about cam-over this is usually what they are talking about.

What I'm referring to is the cam-over from the ram. Some people call this "ram over-travel." In a normal press (with no cam-over) when the handle is in the lowest position the ram is at the absolute top of the stroke. In the LNL (with cam-over) the ram actually goes down just a hair as the handle reaches the lowest position.

What this means is when you are seating a bullet the OAL is determined when the ram is at the top, which is not at the end of the stroke for the LNL but rather just before the end of the stroke. This is beneficial because you will not get different reading depending on how much force you put on the handle (because the ram is actually going down at the end of the stroke).

Well if he is measuring the LNL at the end of the stroke (after cam-over) the ram has actually lowered 0.006" from the top of the stroke. He should be measuring the distance when the ram is at the top of the position or he can just seat two bullets and subtract the difference (since the bullet OAL is based on the top of the ram).

That make sense?

[OS OK]

Thanks…so he really doesn't have a problem in the first place…right.
If both presses will seat identically he can run anything in the first and be assured to get the same results in the second…isn't that the purpose he has in mind?

Sometimes you have to use a larger hammer…on me…OS OK

[drfroglegs]

Exactly. His problem was that he was getting a different measurement comparing the ram height differences to the seated bullet differences.

We are arguing that he should just use the seated bullet differences and gave the ram over travel issue as the possible explanation as to why.

I will note that I think Ultimate Reloader did it wrong in his video where he "calibrates" the LNL classic and the LNL AP because he measures the ram height at the end of the stroke and thus doesn't account for the ram over travel.

[sparky508]

there is one caveat here with the LNL press, or at least on mine, it does kind of a double pump. If you raise the ram to its normal stroke, it does indeed drop back down, but if you press a little harder, it will go right back up.

[mistermog]

I know this is an oldie but just wanted to say, it seems like my lee press is actually shorter than the LNL after I did some foil bushings under the LNL shellplate mount to keep it from tilting... Now this means I have to either bushing the LNL or grind off some of the Lee