Lee classic cast w/ LNL conversion next to LNL AP

[mistermog]

Ok, so I've seen internet threads about shimming the classic cast so the dies are interchangeable without needing adjustment but in this case it seems that the LCC is taller at full ram raised than the LNL AP?

Anyone else happen to have both presses with a conversion kit? I am just wondering if anyone else sees this.

When I try to measure from the top of the conversion to the brass base in the shell holder of the LCC, I get .015" taller than the LNL.

When I seat bullets, it comes out to about an average of .006".

Obviously I'm doing something wrong there, but the LCC comes out higher in every case. Once I figure out how much and then mill off the top of the LCC so the bushing seats down farther?

Opinions?

Yes I know I can adjust dies every time, I just figure since I have them next to each other, might as well try this.

[VHoward]

The ram travel distance is what you should be checking. The opening in the Lee Classic Cast single stage may be taller, but does the ram travel the whole distance? If the opening in the LCC is larger than the L-N-L AP, but the 2 rams travel the same distance, then the dies in the lee would have to be adjusted lower. If the ram in the Lee is traveling much more that the AP, then you may have to adjust the dies in the Lee higher. So you can't really go by caliper measurements. The thing to do would be to measure the distance between the shell plate on the ap and the sizing die when it is at full top travel. Move that sizing die to the Lee and with the shell holder in, raise the ram to full travel up and measure that distance. With lee sizing dies I usually adjust it so the bottom of the die touches the shell plate at full travel of the ram. If the ram on the lee then did not touch at full travel, then you know you have to adjust it down. If it touched before full travel, then you could use a shim to make it adjusted right.

[VHoward]

Did that make any sense?

[Paul_R]

Cartridge base thickness varies. I measure from the shell holder.

[Drew P]

Isn't the critical dimension on this project the height of the shell plate/holder to the die? I made one of these shims for my summit press and yes if the summit had been thicker I would've had to machine it down, or make 5 shims for the LnL. At the end of the day I don't have use for it because I don't use my LnL dies in the single stage or vice verse.

The ram travel has nothing to do with it. Measure from the top edge of the LnL bushing down through the hole to where the brass case sits on both presses, at maximum ram height. The difference is how thick your shim should be, or, how much you'll need to shave off depending on which road you choose. Shims on the LnL would be easy too.

[Paul_R]

You don't have to make shims either. 1-1/4" is a standard size for arbor shims.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ilpage_o03_s00

[mistermog]

I was doing what drewp is saying, which is where I come up with my numbers. I know I can adjust dies, that's what I'm trying to avoid. May figure out how to shim the lnl, ideas?.

I was hoping people would chime in that have both of these press models.

[Drew P]

Harder to shim the LnL because the bushing is recessed. Assuming you need less thickness than the recess plus, say, a washer would provide. I made some using aluminum tube.

Ok idea here. You could place thin washers under all the inserts on the LnL. This will raise the dies maybe 1/8".
if this is more than the CC needed to be samesies then also shim the CC with the arbor shim packs from Amazon.

[mistermog]

That's possible, i think I need a depth micrometer to get a real measurement before I go about doing anything

[Drew P]

Dial calipers all have depth probe

[mistermog]

Yes, and I keep getting measurements from .008" to .016" differences, I think I need a better tool than the one I have.

[VHoward]

Use a ruler across the opening the die goes in, Then you have a flat surface you can measure from with the calipers. Would be easier that way. Measure the same way on each press.

[mistermog]

Yep I did that on both top and across a case in the Shell holder, which is why I suspect my calipers

[VHoward]

Are you using digital callipers? Or an analog dial calliper. I don't trust my digital callipers after a recent experience of not getting a consistant reading of of the same bullet I was measuring. AA different reading each time I measured it.Same thing when I changed the battery. Bought a dial calliper and my problem went away.

[drfroglegs]

Doesn't the LNL cam over while the classic cast does not? If so, that is your problem because at the end of the stroke on the LNL the shell plate actually goes down a bit. That means the seated bullet represents the actual maximum height while the shell plate measurement represents the measurement of the LNL after the cam over.

[mistermog]

Howard, yes digital and I'm wondering that myself.

Frog, I'm not sure if it cams or not? That's a good question. I can't see how as that would make adjusting dies a nightmare

[drfroglegs]

Howard, yes digital and I'm wondering that myself.

Frog, I'm not sure if it cams or not? That's a good question. I can't see how as that would make adjusting dies a nightmare

Just look at the LNL and see if the ram moves slightly down when you get to the end of the stroke. It will be small, about 9 thou according to your measurements.

I prefer cam over presses like the Hornady classic (which I know has cam over). These presses are much more accurate because when you complete the stroke no matter how hard you apply pressure to the handle you can not do any extra work on the ammo. With the Lee classic you can get different seated oal based on how hard you press the handle. With the Hornady classic, you cant because of the cam over.

I have the LNL but I'm away from home right now so I can't check. Just look very closely as you rise the ram to see if it slightly drops near the top.

[sparky508]

Yes the LNL does have some cam over in it. I remember my failed experiment with a magnetic base and a dial indicator...

[drfroglegs]

Yes the LNL does have some cam over in it. I remember my failed experiment with a magnetic base and a dial indicator...

Well there you have it OP. That is the problem. Now if you go back and make your base plate measurement when the ram is actually at the top of the stroke (before the cam over) you should get consistent values.

I would just make the adjustment based on the seated bullet, that's the value that matters anyways and actually should be the accurate value.

[jmorris]

How about using a Lee size/deprime die and lightly lock the pin too low in the collet and measure its movement?

Make sure you use the same case in both machines but when it bottoms out on the bottom of the inside of the case it will be forced up in the die and remove "cam over" from the process and you can measure with the tools you already have.