Help me decide on a BP cartridge or Ball and cap revolver

[alamogunr]

Thanks, yeahbub. I saw those videos but the first one I looked at didn't mention any thing useful for a beginner paper cartridge maker. I guess I will go thru all until I find it.

[Petrol & Powder]

There's a lot of fun to be found in a can & ball revolver. I've always preferred the Remington design with the top strap.

[cajun shooter]

I shot my first BP firearm in 1970 and have not stopped yet. My current health problems have me not shooting at the current time but I hope that will change soon. I will tell you that they have several ways to enjoy the sport of BP shooting, some are very easy and some are complex. I started with a 44 cal 1857 Remington and 36 cal Colt revolvers.
If you are old enough to have seen any of the old westerns in B&W and where the shooter would throw his empty gun at the bad guy, you will understand after your first 6 shots and then reloading the revolver. This is why many frontiersman of the time carried more than one gun or he carried extra cylinders like Josie Wales did in the movie.
Don't listen to those who say you need hot water and soap to clean your gun, faster and better ways exists for todays shooters.
I keep a bottle of Windex w/vinegar on my shooting cart, you can spray the entire gun down with it and it will clean it like new. Another good product which I also use is Ballistol. I mix 2 ounces of it with 14 ounces of water and put it in a good spray bottle from Lowes or Home depot. Ballistol is good because it will not harm any other materials on your gun. There is loads of info on these products on the web.
After you clean your guns, apply the product EEZOX to it for complete care. It's another wonder material for BP shooters. Take Care, enjoy yourself and have fun! Later David

[wills]

Why not get a cap & ball and a conversion and have both?

http://www.guns.com/2012/12/13/the-c...ion-revolvers/

http://www.brownells.com/handgun-par...-prod9488.aspx

[berksglh]

Why not get a cap & ball and a conversion and have both?

Thanks for the idea. Picked up a conversion last weekend for $425.

Its a bit unique in that it converts over to a 357 magnum in stainless.

Heres the conversion:

[RedneckRob]

Do you have a link to the video that is mentioned in the above video that gives the dimensions of the mandrel and template for the paper? I've looked and can't find these specific items.

I had never considered paper cartridges until I watched that video. It is a lot simpler than I had imagined.

Here you go.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2HUcfAyaaQ

[alamogunr]

Thanks! A little late for me to watch tonight but I've bookmarked it so I won't lose it.

[berksglh]

Thanks! A little late for me to watch tonight but I've bookmarked it so I won't lose it.

Check this post out I started on the 1858 forum about paper cartridges. Go to post #12 for a link to the video I made. No cutting of papers required.

http://1858remington.com/discuss/index.php?topic=9898.0


My setup can also be used to make a sticky grease cookie and lead projectile pill without the paper. Just dump a charge and drop a pill ram and prime. For those that don't want to mess with the paper and rolling.

[SSGOldfart]

Ive been reloading for almost 20, and casting for 2-3 years. Casting for 45ACP in a 1911, 9mm for buddies, 300AAC for a bolt action and 223 for my DPMS AR-15 all with great accuracy. I enjoy casting, reloading and powder coating almost as much as shooting.

Ive also made pyrotechnic grade BP in my ball mill for my own fireworks, so I'm intrigued by BP guns now.

Been debating between a BP cartridge or picking up a Pietta Model 1858 New Army Target .44 Caliber Black Powder Revolver.

Not certain if Id venture into using my own sulfur based BP or store bought alternatives..

Ive only used push through sizers, pan lube, and switched to powder coating.

Give me your thoughts and opinions.

Cleaning, casting, cartridges, cap and ball, lube, paper cartridges.....

Dave.

Dave why not both,the steel frame 1858Remington,works well with a conversation cylinder for BP cartridges and the factory cylinder for cap & ball. Then you can still load your own,I'm testing PC.boolits in my walkers

[higgins]

Slug the chambers of your new gun before you buy a mold. I first got a .454 mold for my Pietta 1860 Colt, then found that the chambers were smaller than anticipated and I felt like I was having to use too much force to seat balls. Ended up with a .451 Lee mold that was a good fit; it casts a .452 ball.

[berksglh]

I got the 451 lee ball and the conical. Balls shave a small ring, conicals are tight but ahoot well. Heres 50 shots paper cartridge 451 balls with my DIY grease cookie paper cartridges at 25 yds.



Going to have to file the front site down a bit.

[Good Cheer]

You can use a lubrisizer press to size .45 pistol boolits to slip into the chambers on most .44's. Just control the depth into the sizer and leave the front band large to shear off when loaded.

Another route is to have a mold that's made for the boolit to shear off in front and have an adjustable length smaller diameter hind end.

And yet another, have the chambers altered to be whatever you want.

Personally I kinda like caseless rounds. Whatever works!

[dualsport]

I have recently bought a Pietta '58. Where are you guys getting your caps, what size, and what capper works best? Thanks.

[berksglh]

Best price in Green bay Wisconsin area is Cabelas. $7.99 per 100 cnt. tin.

I like the CCI caps better then the Remingtons, and my 58 likes the #10 better. The 11's work fine, but aren't as snug of a fit.

For shooting by a bench, i just cap with my bare hands, as I find its quicker the loading the capper. But if you dont have a table/bench when loading, the 58 cylinder has recessed or shrouded cap nipples, so you need a skinny end on the capper like the stick capper or the seashell shaped. Locally I am unable to find the seashell, and the oval cappers wont get into the shroud on the 58 nipples to fit.

Stick capper only holds about 15? So I rarely use it.

[griffiga]

I've always had better accuracy luck with the solid frame revolvers like the 1860 Remington, however, that last 51 Navy .36 surprised me as I was hitting soda cans consistently at 15 yards. I have both cap and ball as well as cartridge and I'm glad I don't have to choose one over the other as they both have their place in my shooting arena.

[Texantothecore]

One of the things I love about my Pietta 51 navy is that it is really difficult to blow through 10 bucks of ammo in a shooting session.

You can shoot for pocket change.

[Omnivore]

He mentions his starts at .30 dia. but no further details like taper angle are clearly specified.

You have to listen to his words. He gives you all the required specs for the mandrel;

0.3" to 0.46" over a length of 1.3".

That's for a 30 grain charge or equal combined volume of powder and filler. The Vid is here;
https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PLIGg3pcPWcaLm2YWlzLjtU-D-P74N667d&v=-2HUcfAyaaQ=

I use 30 to 32 grains of Old Eynsford, Swiss or regular Goex 3F, or sometimes an equal volume of T7 3F, a 1/8" lube pill, and either a 200 grain conical or a .454" round ball. Whatever loads easy and shoots well in your gun. No need for the tiisue paper at the end; plain old cig paper or perm paper will do just as well. I've fired hundreds of these cartridges with excellent results, and they are very similar to the cartridges they used by the millions in the 1860s.

Once you get your wrapping mandrel close to spec, you can either tweak the mandrel to hold the charge volume you want, or tweak the charge volume to fit the paper case like you want.

I used a bench sander to form the mandrel, with the belt running parallel to the length of a long dowel for ease of handling, then cut the dowel to length, but you can see in the capandball video that he apparently used a sharp knife and simply whittled it. It need not be perfectly round, nor pretty, nor exactly to spec, but merely functional.

Ideally you want the bullet or ball to tighten up inside the paper case at about the same time it tightens up against the powder (or against the lube pill which is sitting on the powder). That's not difficult because the perm paper will stretch a little bit and also because you can tweak the powder charge as needed to make that happen.

Not all your paper cases will have exactly the same volume, because your rolling will not turn out exactly the same for each case. This does not matter. All that really matters is that your cartridges hold together long enough to mek it out to the field, and that they load relatively easily into the gun.

If you're using heel bullets, the heel will need to be small enough that the extra thickness of the paper does not make the heel too big to insert easily into the chamber. Thus if you're ordering a custom bullet mold, you'll want a heel diameter of no more than about 0.440" (netative tolerance) for a stock Pietta 44 and no more than about .443" for an Uberti. Otherwise youll have to fuss around getting your bullets started, even though that same bullet may have fit fine without paper around it. The Lee 450-200-1R bullet works OK in both guns, but the Pietta frame cutout needs opened up a bit. .454" round ball works great in both, with no modifications, as will .457" for them what wants a longer bearing surface.

[ogre]

I enjoy my 1860 Army and Colt's Dragoon but I am especially partial towards my 1872 open top (Army grips) in .44 special. A hoot to shoot plus I think it has a certain coolness factor going for it.