Originally Posted by
vzerone
Geargnasher, I'm confused. In one sentence you say that you're about in the same place Bjorn is. No. I said I tried (past tense) to so the same thing he's doing now (armor-piercing double-tough alloy) and I never could make it work. I also take it that you wouldn't be satisfied with the groups that he got. Depends on what one is trying to do. I wouldn't try to hunt with any of those alloys, though, except MAYBE the COWW. In another sentence you are giving advice of a couple things to try. Well apparently they don't work because in the first sentence you said you are basically stuck. Nope. Hopefully I explained that a little better for you this time.
I would agree with giving up the super hard alloy, but Bjorn since posted the reason he's using it. I feel that the water quenched 50/50 alloy would be a good one to try especially for hunting also. I believe if it was oven heat treated that it would be too hard for hunting. My recommendation to harden by whatever means to 20-22 is actually about right for the velocity range using low-antimony alloy. That's a little bit of hunting experience with that alloy talking, not "belief", but if there's one thing I know it's that we all have unique experiences with this sort of stuff that influence our opinions. Just because a bullet is heat treated in an oven doesn't mean it HAS to be maximum hardness like about 27 BHN from my 50/50 at 425F for a full hour then into ice water, one can get the same hardness as water-dropping from the mould if a lower heat treat temp is used. I also believe the MP Sil even out of the softer alloy as not so good a hunting bullet because it's too pointy. I really haven't seen that pointy or matters that much in .30-caliber, but I know others have better luck with cup points or WFN's like Ranch Dog bullets. Thing is, VELOCITY. We're pushing bullets faster than most people by a few hundred FPS and using a little more ductile alloy than most people would try, and when a soft, pointy, fast bullet whacks hide and meat it mushrooms a little no matter what the initial shape. Now, on the other hand the hollow point version is impressive to say the least even with the alloy I just condemned for hunting use.
I don't agree with some things you said to try. One was if you were to oven heat treat to gas check them first. I don't believe in that basically because I do not believe in annealing gas checks and oven heat treating will do that. The other is I believe they won't be as tight grasping on the bullet after oven heat treating. I've done it and it worked fine for me. I never had any checks come off or any other problem, again that's experience, not "belief", your mileage, and his, may vary, but I don't dispense advice based on things I haven't done myself. If you've had bad luck with it, please tell us about what you did and how it failed. I can't quite go along with a scuff the freebore either. Take that up with Lamar, he gets it done with .308 and .223 AR by doing just that. It's what I do in my .308 Bisley and it works purty good whether you agree or not. I don't agree with the temperatures you gave for oven heat treat. I believe in a much higher temperature and have done so with good results. Heat treat temperature is subjective, and depends on what you're trying to accomplish. For a softer hunting bullet, I recommend the lower temperature, but any slight traces of antimony, calcium, copper, arsenic, sulfur, ETC. will affect how a given "50/50" alloy will harden.
You didn't mention lubes. I think for this kind of thing, that is HV, that your SL lubes and the "other guy's" soap lube are the best in this country. Maybe, but Carnauba Red is tough to beat if you have enough pressure behind it and the ambient temperature isn't too low.