First muzzleloader?

[Lead Fred]

$350 is about half of what you need to buy a quality muzzle loader.

But then most buy a cheap third world production piece, have nothing but problems, and give up, because the junk dont work right.

Ever try to get replacement parts for these cheap guns? It takes years sometimes, or you just get the part made at high cost.

Those that dont give up, end up buying a semi-custom, or custom built, or do what we did and made our own.
Its not rocket science, folks with 6th grade education used to build master pieces.

BTW OIL, petroleum products WILL NOT WORK WITH BLACK POWDER
It mixes together to make sludge. Which gums up the entire system.

As far as loading goes, 80-90 grs is too much for most calibers under 54.

They have a cool thing called the Davenport Formula. You can find how much powder is the MAX your barrel can burn,
then work backwards to get the most accurate charge.

My standard load is 54.5 grs of 3f. That yields 1630fps. When I double the charge for longer shots, I get 2033fps.
Using the Davenport Formula, I reduced my charge to 74.5 grs, and I still get 2033fps.
Stop wasting powder.

You can do a search for the Davenport Formula on the website, Ive posted it before, or PM me and & send it to your.

[Mk42gunner]

I have been looking at the t/c hawken now.My main question is why are they being sold for so cheap? On midway it said they were being sold for $780 before being discontinued. In seeing them used for $200. Thanks for the advice!

In my opinion, they are being sold cheap because a lot of otherwise knowledgeable people have absolutely no idea there are quality sidelock muzzle loaders. It seems from reading mainstream hunting magazines that "everybody" wants modern inlines that look and feel similar to bolt action rifles with plastic stocks these days.

Add to that, ten to twenty years ago you could walk into almost any Walmart and buy a brand new .50 cal CVA Bobcat (IIRC) for $58.00. Less if it was on clearance.

To me, the best bet on a used good condition muzzle loader would be the previously mentioned T/C, Lyman or maybe a Pedersoli. Birmingham made Parker-Hale Enfields are also pretty good guns in my experience, I have not handled any of the Italian made Parker-Hales.

Robert

[swathdiver]

For $200 or less this fella could get started with a nice low mileage CVA rifle, such as the Frontier or Plainsman or Hawken.

[Hang Fire]

I bought a used TC Hawken lock and stock few years back for $150.00, but the barrel in it was an Orion 32" .45 caliber drop in. It has proven to be the most accurate rocklock I own.

[Mauser48]

Thanks guys. If I were to buy a Kentucky rifle what brand do you recommend? I think after a t/c a Kentucky rifle will be my choice!

[freebullet]

If I could start over my experience in muzzleloading would go- flintlock & inline only.

[doc1876]

just learn a lot about how to inspect it for proper care, especially the barrel. If someone used pyrodex, and did not clean it well, you could be better off with out one.
Take some patches, and ask for permission to "run one down".

Get beyond the shiny, and your deer in the headlights look. take your time, and take care of yourself.

[Lever-man]

A friend gave me an entry level 50 cal. Traditions in-line that had been shot with Pyrodex, not cleaned, then set in a closet for a year before I received it. I was surprised that it cleaned up very well with very little pitting and is a "shooter" today. It just depends on how many times it is done this way. In my case it was a new gun that had only been done that way once. I use it as a loaner for friends that want to try BP, it shoots the Lee 250 gr REAL very well and has a few deer to its credit.

[freebullet]

As cheap as they are go with a stainless inline. Pyrodex hasn't caused any issues in them for me.

[JeffinNZ]

Nothing wrong with used Thompsons. I have only bought a couple new, but several used ones. Quality built and can be great shooters.

Providing it has been looked after. If you are buying second hand get a little bore light you can drop down the barrel so you can see the condition of the tube.

[rfd]

i love traditional muzzle loaders, i've owned, kit built, and shot more than a few dozen traditional ml's, 95% were flintlocks. i did have a pair of lyman trade rifles in each flavor of lock. either are an incredible value, made by invest arms with really good barrels and coil spring locks. on the other hand, i've had a pair of traditions ml's, one a flint kit i built and the other a pre-built percussion. both worked very well but beware that traditions (or most any spain built ml) build the barrels and breech locks in a manner that to remove the plug will destroy the barrel. this is a fact, and only of concern if there's a need to pull the breech plug, 'cause it can't be done without requiring a new barrel. i always advise a newbie to ml's on a budget to seriously consider the lyman trade rifle. however, lyman, cva, traditions, pedersoli, etc. can't hold a candle to a well made gunsmith muzzle loader with top shelf barrel, lock, stock and trigger(s).

[Mauser48]

Thank you very informative. Are the traditions muzzleloaders okay? I see a lot of people on here like the Crockett rifle made by them. I was looking at the Kentucky rifle.

[rfd]

Thank you very informative. Are the traditions muzzleloaders okay? I see a lot of people on here like the Crockett rifle made by them. I was looking at the Kentucky rifle.

read my last post, right above yours.

i had the crockett rifle and i also put together the traditions hawken flinter, both are just fine fine for what they are - bottom feeder ml's with spanish built barrels and locks and triggers that work ok but are nowhere near the league of a custom traditional sidelock ml. i have no idea how they'd work under heavy use, i sold them both off when i learned that traditions side lock rifle breeches can't be removed without destroying the barrels.

imho, the best value in a low end ml is still the lyman trade rifle in either lock type. these rifles are made by invest arms and have been around for decades, and offer a very good value. they will cost more than a comparable traditions/cva/etc, but the extra spending is worth it, imo. i still have a .50 trade flinter going strong after 9 years, and yep, you can pull the breech plugs on 'em.

whether removable or not, all of these offshore rifles sport patent breeches, which means a bit of extra care is required to get down into the ante chamber and clean it out.

[Mauser48]

What brand makes the best Kentucky rifle? How would a traditions compare to a pedersoli?

[rfd]

lots depends on what you mean by "kentucky" rifle, most think davy crockett or dan'l boone, but there are many iterations of a "kentucky" rifle, all of which have nothing to do with the state of kentucky! "kentucky" really means long rifles (primarily, but there are fowlers in there too) made in pennsylvania that were used to pioneer the "west" (kentucky). it's an american invention with specific features and design parameters that include the brass patch box on the butt stock. lots of different kentucky flavors (caliber, barrel length and type, stock dimensions and lots more), dependent on the era/year in mind.

for the offshore tradtitional ml's, pedersoli and lyman/invest arms are the top of the heap, for me. imo, the rest are a gamble, with traditions almost, but not quite, as bad as the junk coming over from india.

the best classic side locks will come from an onshore builder, there are lots to choose, i've had rifles and fowlers from more than a few from folks like tip curtis and muskrat & holland, and many many others. but yer talking long guns that start at a grand and escalate upwards very quickly.

[Mauser48]

I was just looking at the pedersoli Kentucky rifle and it has a 1:48 twist. If I'm going to buy a long rifle I would really like a 1:66 twist. How much do think think it would cost me to build a long rifle if I pieces it out with good parts?

[Lever-man]

Have you checked the kits at Trackofthewolf.com?

[rfd]

I was just looking at the pedersoli Kentucky rifle and it has a 1:48 twist. If I'm going to buy a long rifle I would really like a 1:66 twist. How much do think think it would cost me to build a long rifle if I pieces it out with good parts?

1:48 is a compromise between balls and bullets, 1:66 is balls only. building a kit rifle will depend on what stage the kit's in, your crafting abilities, your tooling, and how much yer willing to both spend in money and time.

[Boaz]

Pendersoli Kentucky is a nice rife , had one for a good while and enjoy it . For a keeper rifle it's worth the extra bucks .

[Mauser48]

After looking around I think a T/C hawken will be my best option. I wish I had the cash for a Great Plains rifle. I will be checking my LGS and gun shows. Thank you for all the input.