Shotgun Lee 7/8oz slug hull selection questions.

[PepeLapiu]

Hey guys.
I was able to cast over 3,000 Lee 7/8oz slugs while waiting for all my tools and books to come in.

At my gun range I have virtually unlimited supply of once fired hulls. They are from Winchester Super-Target xtra-lite target load. 12 Gauge, 2"3/4, loaded with 1oz of 7 1/2 shot.

But I just can't identify the hull properly. I think the Winchester AA hull is often used for reloaders. But these hull do not have a AA on them, the markings read as follows:
A big W with under it, XTRA-LITE-7 1/2.

Here is the Winchester webpage for this ammo:

http://www.winchester.com/Products/s.../TRGTL127.aspx

Now, in my reloading books there is not one recipe for this hull type. I have the Lyman Shotshell Reloading Handbook (5th edit), the B.P.I. Shotshell Load Encyclopedia (9th edit), and the B.P.I. Slug Loading Manual (5th edit).

But not one of them gives me a load recipe for this hull. In fact the only recipes I could find for Winchester hulls was for the Win AA and Win AA HS hulls.

So what am I to do?
Should I be just using the Win AA or Win AA HS recipes on my hulls?
Or are my hulls more close to Cheddite hulls? Or Rio hulls? Or Fiocchi hulls?

I also understand that my Lyman manual advises against using these low brass cheap target hulls for reloading because they can't be reloaded too many times. But since I have an unlimited supply of them once fired, I don't even intend to reload them more than once.

So how can I load these hulls with a 7/8oz Lee slug?

What other reloading book would you recommend?

[Hogtamer]

Internal capacity is what matters. Compare a AA to the Xtra lite hulls by setting them side by side on the counter by your sink. Fill the AA hull with water and transfer that to the xtralite very carefully, an eyedropper works well. If they're the same you're good. Oh, make sure the xtralite inside base is all plastic too. I found the softer plastic hulls (generally the cheapies) actually load the slugs best but component fit is critical. You need about 7/16" from the top of loaded slug to top of hull for a good crimp.

[PepeLapiu]

Okay, great. I will try to check volume capacity just as you explained.

Now, if I find load data for Win AA hulls and let's say 7/8oz of shot, I can just substitute the shot load for a slug and I am good to go, right?

Or will pressure and velocity vary with different slugs/shots loaded?

[Hogtamer]

Yes. Must allow for 2 - 1/8" hard cards on the inside of the shotcup. The slug will be raised slightly above the wad petals and will open the crimp. The hard cards will also keep the wads from jamming into the base of the slug. Also, most agree that the load data that comes with the mold is waaay too hot. The slug loads will generate less pressure than equivalent shot loads. Shoot from IC or Cylinder barrel, no tighter.

[PepeLapiu]

The slug loads will generate less pressure than equivalent shot loads. Shoot from IC or Cylinder barrel, no tighter.

What about velocity? If a certain recipe for 7/8oz #8 shot produces for example 1200 fps, what velocity would you expect by replacing the shot with a 7/8oz slug? Faster or slower?

[FullTang]

Well done, Pepe. That's a lot of slugs!
Those cheap Winchester Super Target hulls can be reloaded using AA data. Winchester tells anyone who asks that those hulls are not meant to be reloaded, but I've reloaded plenty of them and they work fine. They may not crimp perfectly, and the sides may even buckle a little bit, but they shoot just like AAs. Slug shooting is hard on hulls anyway, so you might as well use what's cheap and plentiful. I load 7/8 Lee slugs using "International" load data, which gives 1345 fps with shot, perhaps slightly faster with slugs. As long as you shoot from a cylinder or IC barrel, pressures will be less with a slug than with an equal weight of shot.

[PepeLapiu]

I load 7/8 Lee slugs using "International" load data, which gives 1345 fps with shot, perhaps slightly faster with slugs.

Great. That answers my last question.
So what is this "international" load data? Are you talking about an international reloading manual? Or some international powder?

And no fears, the slugs loads will be strictly for my two cylinder bore guns (Grizzly Mag and Mossy 590A1). And I might look into getting a rifled barrel for my Grizzly Mag gun and see how that goes.

[FullTang]

Hi Pepe,
If you go to the Alliant manual, you'll see a special section on "International" loads (which are meant for international competition, like Olympic shooting events); other manuals and powder makers have international loads sprinkled in with all the others. Just look for those with a velocity of 1345; that's the magic number for International, and it makes for a nice brisk slug load which isn't as over-charged as the loads that come with the slug mold. You can also look in the Ballistic Products "Load of the Week" archives, and they have some nice Lee slug loads, though mostly with the Euro wads they sell.

[GoBig]

Also, most agree that the load data that comes with the mold is waaay too hot.

By way too hot, do you mean dangerous? I've noticed the data for AA hulls and HS-6 hit the shoulder pretty hard.

[Hogtamer]

They don,t as I recall give pressure data for those loads but they are all "high velocity". The one oz. seemed dangerously high when I loaded, not just massive recoil but muzzle blast and sticky hulls. There's plenty of data for 7/8 and 1 oz birdshot loads you can use and work up safely.

[FullTang]

By way too hot, do you mean dangerous? I've noticed the data for AA hulls and HS-6 hit the shoulder pretty hard.

They are certainly a lot more powerful than anyone would want for practice rounds. As Pepe noted, he's planning on shooting 3,000 of these; I'm sure he doesn't want all 3,000 loaded up to 1,700 fps---that would not be fun! The recipes with the slug mold are for full-house hunting loads, and they are ridiculously inefficient with powder, so much more expensive to load. Those of us who shoot a lot of slugs in practice are generally looking for a "tactical low recoil" kind of load, and that's where adapting shot/target loads really makes the most sense.

[PepeLapiu]

As Pepe noted, he's planning on shooting 3,000 of these; I'm sure he doesn't want all 3,000 loaded up to 1,700 fps---that would not be fun!

Actually I think a shooter eventually builds tolerance to recoil
I remember when I first started to shoot slugs out of my 590A1 Mossberg. After 20-40 rounds I would start to develop a trigger flinch due to my shoulder getting sore. Now I can easily shoot 100-200 slugs in one shooting session and not hurt at all. I don't know, it all could be due to improved technique, improved stance, or maybe my shoulder just manned up after a while.

I finally broke down and bough an over/under this summer so I coukd try my luck with some clay. Tge other guts all tell me tge gun I bough is too light and the recoil will kill me. But compared to my slug gun, those #8 target loads feel like a Crossman pellet gun to me.

If recoil is a worry just get a Mesa Tactical shock absorbing stock. Those things are great. I tried some 3" full power slugs out of my very light Grizzly Mag 12' shotgun. It would a shoulder grinder without that Mesa stock. But my 100 lbs wife has no problems shooting 3" slugs with it.

Really I just want to cut costs and increase accuracy at longer range. So if more velocity will work, or a hotter load works better, I'll do just that.

I saw a guy at the range shooting a 6" group at 100 meters with Lee 7/8oz slugs out of an 18" smooth bore 870. I'd like to achieve comparable results. And maybe get a rifled barrel with a scope or with a rail on the barrel if I can find one.

[hardy]

Hi Pepe,I,m guessing you didn,t get any load data from the 870 smoothbore/6" @ 100 yards shooter?Was his scoped? Cheers,Mike..All information is good....

[duckey]

For further knowledge try the YouTube and search for bubbaroundtreeoutdoors or fortunecookie45lc. They talk about reloading both the 7/8 and 1 oz Lee slug using a varity of once fired hulls. I have not had great accuracy past 25 yards but have worked up decent loads using a new fiochi hull and a blue bpi sabot with a Lyman 370 gn maxi ball. The aa12 shot cup as well as other shot cups are ok but is not designed for slugs. Just my two cents.

[PepeLapiu]

Hi Pepe,I,m guessing you didn,t get any load data from the 870 smoothbore/6" @ 100 yards shooter?Was his scoped? Cheers,Mike..All information is good....

Sorry, I didn't ask him too much. I do know he was using a 500 with a riffled barrel and scope. Also he was using Fiocchi hulls and Lee 7/8oz slugs.
So based on the advise I received here I also started collecting Fiocchi once fired hulls and I started casting Lee 7/8oz slugs.
Looks like I won't be able to get a steady supply of Fiocchi hulls so I am looking into using the cheap Winchester target hulls. I have access to plenty of that at the range.

But I will ask him more details on his load if/when I see him again and report back here.

[glenr1]

BPI has them new primed and skived they also put them on sale often http://www.ballisticproducts.com/All.../products/630/ Sign up for the email notification. There is no hazmat fees for shipping primed hulls.