Just Say *NO* to OREO!

[Lloyd Smale]

yup and im a straight ticket republican and always have been but some here are completely blind thinking this is only a democratic thing. Big business is in cohoots with the republicans just like the unions leaders are with the democrats if not more so. I liken it to the nra. Some claim the nra doesn't do what it should with the money its given to fight for our rights but there the only show left. Same with the unions. The republicans sure don't care about the middle class any more then the democrats do and that about leaves the unions as the only dog in the fight for the middle class. Theyre far from perfect but I know that at least some of my union dues went to help maintain a standard of living for the middle class.

Who else is fighting that fight? Who else has the power to stand up to those millionaires and billionaires? Your voice alone means nothing to them. They will laugh at the middle class when the unions are gone and theres no longer an organized fight against them. Who with any semblance of intelligence really believes that the board at GM or Ford or US steal or any other company really cares about there workforce. There a tool to make profit and that's it! They will cut your wages until they cant anymore then will have someone in some third world country do it for them while we starve.

From what I reading here on the forum, the unions are solely responsible for companies exporting U.S. jobs. This would imply that only union jobs pay $20/hr or better.

The exportation of U.S. jobs is not about union wage scales. It's about companies wanting only to pay a depressed wage which is only found in a country with a depressed standard of living.

American companies send jobs to countries with depressed economies and a low standard of living because they don't want to pay a wage scale that goes along with a good or healthy standard of living. Why do you think nearly 100% of American jobs go to 3rd world countries instead of Japan or Germany or Italy or some other industrialized nation with a healthy standard of living?

These companies pay (buy off) our politicians to reduce or eliminate import taxes, tariffs and/or duties, so they can profit by sending jobs which in America pay a wage commensurate with our standard of living, to countries where $2.00/hr and no benefits is commensurate with the their standard of living.

This practice of sending jobs which support a standard of living that was once the envy of the world, to 3rd world countries, will eventually lower our standard of living to match theirs. But don't worry, I'm sure your descendants will enjoy living in homeless camps and raising their children on little more than beans and tortillas.

[marlin39a]

Oreo cookies are on sale here for $2.49! I'm not buying! (Type 2 diabetic anyway)

[Hannibal]

I am going to have to respectfully disagree with some of what you have said.

The United States became THE world economic superpower by harvesting raw resources, manufacturing those resources into durable goods, and exporting some but consuming most of those goods. Unfortunately, harvesting raw resources is a messy business, often creating dangerous by-products and nearly always creating an unsightly harvest zone. Manufacturing processes often times created more dangerous by-products which were not always taken care of in a responsible manner. Sometimes due to ignorance, and sometimes due to greed and convenience. Over time, lessons have been learned from some of the mistakes, and better methods have been developed.

A large portion of the American people look at the impact the harvesting and manufacturing processes have upon the environment and demand these activities cease. The "Not in MY backyard!" mindset. They elected officials who pledged to do something. And by and large they have. By creating a country where the cost and bureaucracy are so excessive, business time and time again reach the conclusion that in order to remain competitive and make a profit, for the reason for a business to exist and operate is to earn a profit, they find their best option is to relocate their facilities outside of the United States.

This upsets many persons, and they want a 'penalty' or 'TARIFF' imposed upon the goods being brought in from foreign nations. And the government is all to eager to comply. People asking to pay more for goods and the extra costs going to the government's coffers? It's a politician's dream.

So. The jobs leave the United States. The prices go up. And people complain.

NICE.

Yes, this is an over-simplification and is not all - inclusive. But by and large, THIS is where the decent paying jobs that did not require 4-6 years of post-secondary education to qualify for have gone.

[Lloyd Smale]

to bad we cant find a way to make a law that if a company relocates any part of a company outside of this country the entire board of directors has to go to that country with it for at least 10 years or go to jail!!!!

[DougGuy]

It comes down to one basic ugly emotion, greed. The outfits that have a lot of money already are the hungriest and the most ruthless when it comes to making more money. It isn't even in their mentality to give a flying *F* about anything less. <<-- THIS is a cancer worse than any demican utopia any of our political hopefuls could ever dream up. We have been and still are evolving into a Soylent Green economy. When the SHTF in the major food chains, you will see calamity like no other before it. Maybe not in our generation but the next one who knows.

The American people have no voice anymore against corporate dollars. Our entire government has it's ear tuned to corporate dollars and could care less about the citizens of this country. This is why no sensible legislation to preserve our jobs and economy will ever be passed. Corporate dollars will head it off at the pass..

[Hannibal]

I agree that ANY disruption, real or perceived, brings out a form of human behavior that is some of the worst to behold. Remember the runs on the gas stations and price gouging on 9/11? And how about the scenes and stories from New Orleans after Katrina?

But I digress. Sorry for the thread drift.

[jonp]

I guess its ok if your into class warfare and taking those evil rich peoples money as punishment for being more succesful than you are

[dtknowles]

............... Who with any semblance of intelligence really believes that the board at GM or Ford or US steal or any other company really cares about there workforce. There a tool to make profit and that's it! They will cut your wages until they cant anymore then will have someone in some third world country do it for them while we starve.

You are half right. When I worked for Lockheed Martin, we would go to middle schools and high schools and do outreach for Science Technology, Engineering and Math. Why, to build the next generation workforce. Why would you ask your Engineers to go out to schools during working hours and talk to kids? The company's most valuable resource was our engineering talent. The more home grown engineers they could make the better. I did it but a little reluctantly. I was encouraging the workforce that would make it easier for the company to replace me with a younger lower paid engineer. I did it for the kids and the country because those kids will be the ones who make this country the best in the world.

A company only cares about its workforce as it flows to the bottom line. Companies care about its workers but only as much as they help the company make more money. If it takes two weeks to train a high school kid to replace you then don't expect the company to care one bit for you. If it will take 5 years to train your replacement and they will have to put a lot of effort in recruiting that replacement and paying for relocation and they won't know if the replacement will work out or be a bust for at least 6 months, so they have to recruit 2 or three potential replacements, yeah, they will care.

Companies move production overseas for lots of reasons and only some are due to labor costs. Labor costs are not going to go up. Wages are not going to go up. There are not enough jobs for everyone in the U.S. who wants one and it is even worse in the third world.

If you make cardboard boxes and U.S. produced cardboard costs 10% more than Canadian cardboard, why would you buy U.S. cardboard? Labor is a commodity, it is a completive market and the sale goes to the lowest priced supplier. You can compete on cost or quality or a combination of the two. Are you sure that the quality of U.S. labor is enough superior to the quality of foreign labor that it is worth the higher price.

Tim

[Lefty Red]

Damn, I like OREOs too.

Just waiting to see what the union is gong to give up to the governor. Teamsters gave up a four year raise freeze for IDOT! ACSME will give up our back pay and everything else. Just wish they would tell us to strike!

Jerry

[dtknowles]

to bad we cant find a way to make a law that if a company relocates any part of a company outside of this country the entire board of directors has to go to that country with it for at least 10 years or go to jail!!!!

And this is right, how? What if the board relocates parts of the company to different countries or the board member is on the board of multiple companies that relocate to different countries? What if the board member is not a U.S. citizen? What has 10 years got to do with anything? With that law maybe the board would just move the company headquarters to the Bermuda and make it a foreign owned company? Actually it is a bit of a surprise that more companies have not moved their headquarters overseas. U.S. taxes and regulation would seem to drive companies away. I guess with could do like Venezuela and nationalize a bunch of the big companies in the U.S. then they could not leave and the government could try to run them at a profit with U.S. labor? Yeah, more laws restricting companies are the answer.

Tim

[dtknowles]

It comes down to one basic ugly emotion, greed. The outfits that have a lot of money already are the hungriest and the most ruthless when it comes to making more money. It isn't even in their mentality to give a flying *F* about anything less. <<-- THIS is a cancer worse than any demican utopia any of our political hopefuls could ever dream up. We have been and still are evolving into a Soylent Green economy. When the SHTF in the major food chains, you will see calamity like no other before it. Maybe not in our generation but the next one who knows.

The American people have no voice anymore against corporate dollars. Our entire government has it's ear tuned to corporate dollars and could care less about the citizens of this country. This is why no sensible legislation to preserve our jobs and economy will ever be passed. Corporate dollars will head it off at the pass..

There is a difference between profit motive and greed. The incentive for a business is to make profits and grow to make even more profit, develop new products to make even more profit, it is a virtuous cycle. That a growing business might employ overseas workers is not an evil thing. Those overseas workers get a job, can support a family, buy products, (maybe even products made in the U.S.) another virtuous cycle.

Any regulation who's sole intent is to preserve American jobs is just a socialist experiment and will probably cause the loss of as many U.S. jobs as it saves. The way to save or create U.S. jobs is to make it more profitable to use U.S. labor by increasing the value of U.S. labor. Increase the skills and ability of the U.S. workers and make them more productive than overseas workers. Artificially increasing the wages of U.S. workers only makes these workers less competitive on the world market leading to job losses. Putting tariffs on Imported products increase the cost of these products (inflation) reducing the value of U.S. wages. Tariffs if done right could stop the job losses but if they are broadly applied will hurt economic growth in the U.S. and world wide leading to job losses.

Understand that U.S. companies have to compete with foreign owned companies, if they don't build a factory in China someone in China will build a factory to make the same product in China and sell that product to the world. U.S. companies don't just sell their product in the U.S. Do you think the Pepsi sold in Russia is made in the U.S.

Tim

[Charley]

"Companies benefit from their hiring of workers made literate and trained by a public education system that, with all its foibles, is pervasive and accessible. Corporate trucks enjoy the benefits of publicly financed roads and bridges, maintained at the public’s expense, not theirs."

You didn't build that! Sound familiar? Profit motive is what drives business, and labor costs are only one factor in that equation. Taxes are the more likely motive for the move.

[smokeywolf]

to bad we cant find a way to make a law that if a company relocates any part of a company outside of this country the entire board of directors has to go to that country with it for at least 10 years or go to jail!!!!

Lloyd, if you let the gov't take away somebody's right to decide where they wish to live, you'll also be giving the gov't the power to decide a lot of other things for a lot of other people; including yourself.

You have to take away big business's right to bribe politicians to remove or lower import duties, taxes and tariffs for U.S. companies and corporations who send manufacturing out of the U.S. Then, you have to make sure that foreign companies pay enough import taxes so that they can't grossly undercut American business.

I don't have all the answers, but somehow we need to get back to the way industry and commerce was in the '50s and 60's, when America produced much, if not most of what Americans bought and there were still jobs that paid a wage that allowed one parent to stay home and raise the children while the other not only paid the bills, but actually had something left at the end of each month put in a savings acct.

When you keep putting Americans out of work, Americans lose their ability to consume. When you protect America's middle class you are also protecting America's consumer base and therefore America's economy. At some point corporate America is going to have to return to the mindset that built this country and that is not sacrificing the ability of America's consumer market to consume for the sake of quarterly or even annual profits. American business used to look not just to the end of the fiscal quarter or the end of the fiscal year, but a decade or decades into the future.
Now all these ridiculously overpaid CEOs look at is making it appear as though they are earning at least some of their ridiculously inflated bonuses.

[lefty o]

i dont need oreo's anyways. i wont support a company that kills jobs in this country just to bolster the ceo/boards pockets.

[southpaw]

If she didn't do it they would have found someone else who would be willing to do it.

Jerry Jr.

[JWT]

Hannibal is correct. The sugar prices in the US are much higher than virtually anywhere else. I read an article a few weeks ago on the Oreo move that pointed this out. The article also pointed out that Chicago has lost 1/3 of their confectionary businesses already due to this same issue. Paying double for the raw materials is far harder on a company than the payroll costs.

[jonp]

From what I reading here on the forum, the unions are solely responsible for companies exporting U.S. jobs. This would imply that only union jobs pay $20/hr or better.

The exportation of U.S. jobs is not about union wage scales. It's about companies wanting only to pay a depressed wage which is only found in a country with a depressed standard of living.

American companies send jobs to countries with depressed economies and a low standard of living because they don't want to pay a wage scale that goes along with a good or healthy standard of living. Why do you think nearly 100% of American jobs go to 3rd world countries instead of Japan or Germany or Italy or some other industrialized nation with a healthy standard of living?

These companies pay (buy off) our politicians to reduce or eliminate import taxes, tariffs and/or duties, so they can profit by sending jobs which in America pay a wage commensurate with our standard of living, to countries where $2.00/hr and no benefits is commensurate with the their standard of living.

This practice of sending jobs which support a standard of living that was once the envy of the world, to 3rd world countries, will eventually lower our standard of living to match theirs. But don't worry, I'm sure your descendants will enjoy living in homeless camps and raising their children on little more than beans and tortillas.

i dont need oreo's anyways. i wont support a company that kills jobs in this country just to bolster the ceo/boards pockets.

Yeah, id hate to see my 401k increase because of their higher profit

[lefty o]

Yeah, id hate to see my 401k increase because of their higher profit

if it was your job being cut, you wouldnt be so worried about your 401k!

[dtknowles]

.........I don't have all the answers, but somehow we need to get back to the way industry and commerce was in the '50s and 60's, when America produced much, if not most of what Americans bought and there were still jobs that paid a wage that allowed one parent to stay home and raise the children while the other not only paid the bills, but actually had something left at the end of each month put in a savings acct..........

The 50's and 60's were an exceptional case that will not be repeated. The rest of the World had just suffered great infrastructure damages and was trying to rebuild and the U.S. had built a great deal of infrastructure to support war production so the U.S. was booming making stuff for the rest of the world and paying us with money we either gave them or loaned them. We helped them rebuild and then we had to compete with them in the end of the 20th century. Now in the start of the 21st century we have to compete with the emerging third world economies.

Tim

[JWFilips]

Hitler loved his countries "Unions": Says a lot :
I'm A union buster ...I am An American ! as our fore father's wanted it
Socialism is deeply seeded in this country! It is a Cancer! You Buy in to it ...a socialist you may be!
No one tells me when to work and no one tells me not to work! I work when I want and no "union" dictates that!!!