midrange,,, 800-x takes up room in the case.
it is 700-x, but bigger and has a little burn deterrent coating applied, but other than that it's the same recipe as 700-x.
midrange,,, 800-x takes up room in the case.
it is 700-x, but bigger and has a little burn deterrent coating applied, but other than that it's the same recipe as 700-x.
In 45 ACP, high performance only. I see its usage in light loads or when thousands of standard velocity loads must be turned out as something of a misapplication. There are other powders that meter more repeatably and use less per shot that make much more sense to use for these things.
With light target loads unconsumed flakes are much in evidence.
I've been eyeballing 800x since it's about the only pistol powder consistently in stock (besides AA super handicap), but the metering stories made me shy away. I guess I could make a dipper.
How does it meter through MEC charge bars?
The only thing I'd have use for it in is .44 Special & .357 magnum & I seldom shoot magnums anymore. The 7.62x54r does get my attention, though.
I guess 12 gauge, too, but only if I run out of Green Dot or Clays. The latter is a distinct possibility, but 800x sounds too slow for a target powder.
Maybe 20 gauge if my son ever decides to shoot the O/U I bought him for Christmas. If he doesn't, I may screw a chunk of walnut into the butt & start shooting it.
Thanks Run. I've been looking at 800X for a while as a possible powder for 20 ga. shotgun, and have seen data for it, but haven't heard a great deal about it in .45 ACP, so may just pick up a few lbs. of it and give it a try. I'm to pick up my pair of Combat Commanders tomorrow, and if I can just FIND some, I'll give it a try on y'all's say-so. Could be interesting. I don't care about its large grain sizes. I learned long ago to use a 30 cal. spout on my measure and that took care of just about all my bridging, and tapping the hopper to settle the powder well before measuring, plus knocking the handle 3 times on both up and down strokes has given me much better consistency in measuring the long grained stuff like 4350 & 4831 & 4064, and I anticipate it'll do good with a big flake powder too. Ain't no way to tell but to try it and see.
The bridging in the Lee measure occurs within the cavity. Having a bigger funnel on the end doesn't help. This is a matter of granule size versus cavity diameter, not a matter of funneling the charge into the case. For me, whacking the measure multiple times to get the powder to settle if of large flake size does not produce the charge consistency of a finer granuled powder running the measure sans pounding and whacking. The more manipulation the measure requires the lower the potential consistency, as it requires doing multiple things the same way each time. Which is unlikely.
The more manipulation, the more variation.
Since shotgun charges and charge cavities are much larger bridging and meterability and not the issue pistol sized charges are.
Ah! Now I SEE! Thanks. I have RCBS, Ohaus and Pacific measures and haven't used the Lee. Looks like I lucked out for once. Interesting about the Lees. Thanks for the info. I have a couple of friends thinking about getting into loading, and they mentioned the Lee measure specifically. I'll try to get them to go with another type because they're really not the type yet to want to bother with special treatment that the Lee apparently requires, and they're both capable of buying better. They're just cheap, like me. You may have saved them money and frustration in getting started. Thanks!
I ordered 700-X from Grafs and they sent me 800-X by mistake. Since it was during the time period where nothing was available I did not complain, just kept it. It is good in most of the calibers I have tried it in, though it does not meter like smaller flake. In the Dillon it is acceptable however.
in shot shell sized volumes it does pretty good.
made a bushing to drop 34 grs of it in one of my ponsess warrens to load duck loads with and run it in one of my other ponsess's for the 20 ga loads when making up grouse loads.
it meters about 20 times better than steel.
I made a stand for a Mec slider top so I could drop the powder right onto a pan to weigh every load of steel powder. [and steel shot payload too]
I don't do that with 800-x in the shot shells it drops pretty consistent.
Being all I have are 45s, I use it in all of them. 45ACP, 45C, and 45/70
I have sworn on the altar of GOD eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.Thomas Jefferson
" Any law that is NOT constitutional is not a law" James Madison
Blackwater, the Lee is not a problem if large flake powders are not used in small diameter cavities. I wouldn't necessarily not recommend the Lee as it expands and charges in the same step when the case is raised, sort of automatically, which is a great time saver. I use it regularly on purpose.....but I am aware of its limitations. All measures have limitations, and the Lee's are easily avoided or circumvented. In fairness, Lee mentions not using large flake powders in small cavities in their directions. Since the height of the metering bar is fixed, the only way to alter volume is to change the diameter of the cavity.
When it gets too small, it bridges IN the cavity. Not a big deal....use Bullseye, W231, WST, Titegroup, etc. in small cavities. Warning against the Lee without giving ALL the information is doing the Lee a disservice, and the whole point is giving accurate information about a product so someone can make a proper choice. That's what I'm doing here.
In other words, no Unique or 800X or Red Dot or Clays in the 32 auto or 380. Truthfully, in most 45 ACP sized charges of standardish velocity 800X is NOT a problem in the Lee measure. It is when they get to standard velocity 38 Special size charges or smaller that problems develop.
My personal "bottom end" for large flake powders in the Lee is around 3.7-4.0 grains.
I agree with 35remington. I never throw less than 4gr of 800x or Titegroup with the Lee. Bullseye is the only thing I've tried with less than 4gr with the Auto Disk and it was fine.
To be honest, I've never had an issue either way, but why take chances when it works just fine that way.
Titegroup meters like water and is fine in the small cavities in the Lee Auto Disk or Pro Auto Disk as is Bullseye. 800X is not.
My Autodisk, as others have stated, is lousy at metering small charges with flake powders, but it meters them very consistently at 4gr+, also as others have stated. Having said that, I do love having discovered 700X 800X and ETR7. They work very well in my .380, 38spl, 9mm and .32SWL. So, I put in a tiny bit more effort by charging them in an extra step with my Lee Perfect Powder measure. Yeah I could have spent more on a higher end one, but it works well for these charges too. Plus, I load more rounds when I do these calibers, it makes it more worthwhile. YMMV -ABQ
Krav Maga Instructor
Defensive Tactics Instructor for Public Safety Personnel
Empty Handed Gun Disarming Instructor
"If the enemy is in range, so are you." - infantry journal
It meters well in my Dillon however I measure each charge, my life is that exciting.
Thanks for the advice, guys. I'll make sure they know the full story, and I DO appreciate it. Hard to give good advice on stuff I don't know about from actual use, but thanks to you guys, I can relay your comments with confidence to them. Thanks a bunch. This is one of the FEW places on the net where I feel I can trust 90% of what is printed here. That's an asset few sites can boast of! Thanks.
Here's my latest foray with 800X in .357mag:
Cases = Starline (untrimmed)
Primers = CCI 550 SPM
Powder = 8.5gr 800X (of course) dispensed with a lee autodisk .95 cavity.
Boolit = Lee 358-158-RF pop-can PBGC
Out of a 6" revolver:
String: 1 Date: 7/14/2015 Time: 5:40:45 PM Grains: 158 Hi Vel: 2398 Low Vel: 1085 Ave Vel: 1359 Ext Spread: 1313 Std Dev: 419 revolver Velocity Power Factor Ft/Lbs 1094 172.852 419.849 1158 182.964 470.409 1117 176.486 437.688 *1694 267.652 1006.666 *2398 378.884 2017.238 1085 171.43 412.97 1136 179.488 452.705 1173 185.334 482.675 *1766 279.028 1094.057 1154 182.332 467.165 1184 187.072 491.77
* I ended up tossing these values, because a) they're pretty much impossible given the rifle data, b) I had no problems at all with case extraction or any other overpressure signs, and c) I still have all my fingers. I think I may have been too close to the chrono and was measuring other debris (loose GCs?).
Out of a rifle, 18.5" barrel, bolt action:
String: 2 Date: 7/14/2015 Time: 5:42:23 PM Grains: 158 Hi Vel: 1539 Low Vel: 1488 Ave Vel: 1516 Ext Spread: 51 Std Dev: 15 rifle Velocity Power Factor Ft/Lbs 1516 239.528 806.227 1525 240.95 815.828 1529 241.582 820.113 1493 235.894 781.949 1504 237.632 793.514 1523 240.634 813.689 1488 235.104 776.72 1532 242.056 823.334 1513 239.054 803.039 1518 239.844 808.355 1539 243.162 830.875 1523 240.634 813.689 1513 239.054 803.039 1501 237.158 790.351 1534 242.372 825.485
As you can see the rifle data are very consistent, as are the pistol data without the really extreme shots.
-ABQ
Last edited by abqcaster; 07-15-2015 at 11:19 AM.
Krav Maga Instructor
Defensive Tactics Instructor for Public Safety Personnel
Empty Handed Gun Disarming Instructor
"If the enemy is in range, so are you." - infantry journal
Yep, somebody's chrono wasn't reading the revolver correctly. The only way a 357 revolver would come within 50 percent of 2000 ft lbs is if it exploded due to over pressure while launching the bullet.
OK... I did a bit of research after my last post and I found a revolver where it might just be possible. Uberti makes a "Buntline" revolver (handgun) in .357 mag with an 18" barrel. That should give you rifle velocities in a "revolver".
Hodgdon says 21gr of H4227 with a 110gr Hornady XTP will give you 2233 fps out of an 18.5" barrel. That works out to be 1217 ft-lbs.
Last edited by NavyVet1959; 07-20-2015 at 07:04 PM.
BP | Bronze Point | IMR | Improved Military Rifle | PTD | Pointed |
BR | Bench Rest | M | Magnum | RN | Round Nose |
BT | Boat Tail | PL | Power-Lokt | SP | Soft Point |
C | Compressed Charge | PR | Primer | SPCL | Soft Point "Core-Lokt" |
HP | Hollow Point | PSPCL | Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" | C.O.L. | Cartridge Overall Length |
PSP | Pointed Soft Point | Spz | Spitzer Point | SBT | Spitzer Boat Tail |
LRN | Lead Round Nose | LWC | Lead Wad Cutter | LSWC | Lead Semi Wad Cutter |
GC | Gas Check |