Any lube ideas ?

[Theditchman]

I am going to shoot 400gr .45 boolits from my new muzzie and am going to size them .432 in my lyman 450 sizer/lube machine...what lube do you all think that would work in the 450 and would be good for this boolit
Any ideas??

[Omnivore]

Choose to learn from the BPCR shooters, who shoot at 500 to 1,000 yards in matches that can last all day. Some that I know personally use SPG lube in their 45-70, 45-90 and 45-100 cartridge rifles. With enough lube capacity in the bullet grooves, and the use of a blow tube, you should be able to shoot indefinately so long as the humudity is not too low. On dry days you may have to swab after every several shots.

I haven't used in rifles yet, but I've used a lot of Gatofeo Number One lube (GF1). Using a grease cookie of GF1 about an eighth inch thick behind the bullet, and blowing down the gun after each six shots, I've demonstrated that one can shoot a revolver indefinately, or at least a little over 100 shots, with no swabing, no additional lube, or any other servicing of the gun or the bore.

After this experience I will be re-thinking my rifle loading procedure entirely. For a rifle I'd think you'd want a card between the bullet and a lube cookie, if you go the cookie route. That'd be so the cookie doesn't get dragged along with the bullet, as may degrade accuracy.

By BPCR shooting brother, using a 550 grain 45 cal bullet, says he gets enough SPG lube in the bullet grooves that he doesn't need a grease cookie. Others in his group do likewise. So I would think it would depend on the bullet's lube capacity, the barrel length, and the humidity at the time, that is, for a given powder. It all works together to determine what works well and what doesn't.

The subject of "what works" deserves some consideration, for the purpose of clarity and understanding. What I mean by "what works" is that there is no accumulation of powder fouling. THAT is the purpose of so-called "lube" in a black powder gun. By "no accumulation of powder fouling" I mean that the fouling left over after the 100th shot is exactly the same, and in the same amount, as the fouling left over after the first shot, i.e. "no accumulation" means "no accumulation".

[wills]

If using SPG is too easy, you could try making your own.

Here are several recipes I have seen

Home

"Great For Hot,Dry Conditions" sourced from Dan Theodore

Ingredients, Procedures, Notes, etc.

All measures are by volume.
4 parts refinedbeeswax
2 parts LubeGard's "Valve and Assembly Lubricant"
2 parts anhydrous lanolin.
OR
5 parts refinedbeeswax
3 parts LubeGard
2 parts anhydous lanolin. "This makes a dandy lube for dry, hotconditions."
Note: LubeGard shouldbe available at any NAPA Auto Supply store.
Note: Refined beeswax and anhydrous lanolin are available from: http://www.from-nature-with-love.com/soap/.

Melt the beeswax and anhydrous lanolin in a double boiler. Once both are wellmelted, add the LubeGard and stir for a minute. This lube works well forpan-lubing, as well as through a lube-sizer.

"Emmerts" - providedby Ken Hurst
This is an old lubebut still has a following and has never failed me when using it for BlackPowder. I understand it can be used for smokeless if you are using low-pressureloads.
50% bees wax
40% Crisco or lard
10% canola oil
I heat this in adouble boiler to mix. Do not heat in a micro wave as it offers too much heatusually. I fill my lubasizer with the lube while it is hot and it works well. Ihave also pan lubed with good success.

"1995Lube”sourced from Paul Matthews
2 parts yellowbeeswax
1 part Pure Neatsfoot Oil
1 part Murphy’s Oil Soap
(easy to make in 8-ozbatches)
1) Melt 4 oz ofbeeswax in the microwave. Usually 6-8 minutes is about the right time.
2) Stir in 2 oz of Neatsfoot oil when beeswax is melted. Stir until the mixtureis lumpfree.
3) Stir in 2 oz of Murphy’s Oil Soap, stirring continuously as the soap isadded. Again, mix until there are no lumps.
4) Pour into storage containers as soon as batch is well mixed.
Very soft and sticky.Will not melt in the sun, but works well in the cold, too. NOT suitable for panlubing.

“Shows PromiseLube” - sourced from Paul Matthews
8 oz Yellow Beeswax
4 fl oz Pure Neatsfoot Oil
1 cake (3 .5 oz) Neutrogena Facial Soap
1) melt the beeswaxover a low fire
2) stir in the neatsfoot oil until lumpfree
3) cut the soap into fine peels, then add to the melted mixture.
Don’t boil themixture. A very sticky bullet lube. Looks to be very good.


Here are some bullet lubes I have usedwith very good results in the hot shooting weather of the west. - Mystery Guest

13 oz of beeswax
5 oz of peanut oil
1/2 stick of 50/50 alox
1 oz of anhydrous lanolin

6 oz of beef tallow
4 oz bayberry wax
2 oz beeswax
2 oz synthetic sperm oil
1 heaping teaspoon of Moly

6 oz of beeswax
3 oz of bayberry wax
6 oz of bacon grease
1 tablespoon of Dawn soap
2 tablespoon of neatsfoot oil

40% beeswax
30% conola oil
30% lanolin
......................this looks and feels a lot like SPG

70% Soywax
20% Avocado oil
10% lanolin
......................this is good for cooler weather, spring/fall

Emmerts – for TexasHeat - source unknown
50% beeswax
40% Crisco
10% jojoba by volume
.......................thislube will not foul a .45-2.6 34” barrel


1/4 lb. of lard
1/8 lb. of bee's wax
2 tablespoons of STP oil additive
Heat and stir. Letcool. Heat again to pour into bullet sizer. Let cool. Perfect.

Also use the stp for case sizing. there's nothing better.
Curly Thouin,Westhampton, MA

.................................................. .............

[country gent]

Why sizing down to .432? sizing a 45 cal bullet that far down wontleave much if any grease grooves on the bullet. I have used emmerts improved with good results and SPG is also very good. I would give the SPG a try first it works good in most lube sizers and dosnt require heat to flow.

[Black Powder Bill]

432 good luck with that! You should be over sized not undersized.

[Good Cheer]

LOOB = Lanolin+OliveOil+Beeswax

Adjust the amounts to suit.

[Theditchman]

It does seem an odd size but I got the gun from R Johnson on this site and he sent me the sizing die and mold to go with the rifle and he definitely seems to know what he is doing

[oldracer]

If you have one of Rogers's guns I would bet with that size bullet it is supposed to be paper patched? You better check with him to see what he recommends. I have one of his round ball guns and he sent me a chunk of fine linen to use as a guide for the patches.

[Theditchman]

I think I will...I can always slug the barrel just to make sure

[oldracer]

I would call Roger before you try slugging as the barrel may have some taper in the bore and they are hard to figure what to use. With a slug gun the bullet diameter is different than with a cartridge gun as my 45-70 rifles used a 0.459 diameter bullet where the muzzle loaders use 0.449 with paper patch.

[dromia]

For BP shooting it is easier and cheaper to make you own.

My recipe is beeswax, mutton tallow and a touch of lanolin proportions to suit your needs.

Easy to melt and pour into your lubsizer.

[lobogunleather]

I've been shooting large caliber cartridge rifles for many years (.45-70, .45-90, .45 Sharps Express), always with cast bullets. This is low-volume reloading, usually 100 rounds at a time, so time spent reloading is not much of a factor. I have found that the pure white lithium grease sold in tubes at auto parts stores provides excellent lubrication and keeps powder fouling soft and easy to clean. I do not size my bullets at all, shooting them as cast, lube applied with the fingertips just before seating in the cases.

I have also used the lithium grease in cap & ball revolvers (original Colt 1860 and Remington New Army models), applying a dab of the grease over the seated balls. Keeps the revolvers working smoothly for 50 or more shots at a time, and cleaning them is very easy. The difference is most noticeable with the Remington, which have a tendency to foul badly and bind the cylinders.

In the TC Hawken .50 I have used the Lee REAL and Lyman Maxi Balls with lithium grease for lube. Excellent accuracy and easy cleaning.

In my original 19th Century Pennsylvania half-stock percussion rifle I use only patched round balls, with vegetable oil as the patch lube. Have fired 20-plus without wiping the bore and loading remains easy.

I like the simple solutions. Vegetable oil is about a buck per quart at the grocery store. White lithium grease is about $4 for a 10-oz. cartridge at the auto parts store, and it goes a long long long way at the reloading bench.

[Theditchman]

Thank you everyone

[oldracer]

Well........did you talk to Roger yet?????

[Southron]

I recommend a mixture of 50% Real Beeswax and 40% Bore Butter.

For percussion revolvers I simply dip the lead balls in a melted mixture of the above ingredients and place the balls on a sheet of aluminum foil to allow the wax to reharden. Then at he range you simply load your powder charge out of a flash and seat the ball. Hence, you don't have to mess with that "Greasy kid stuff" lube, spreading it over the face of the loaded cylinder.

You hae received some excellent advice in the posts above mine.

However, one thing to avoid at all costs is to try to substitute Paraffin for Beeswax. When you combine the residue of a Paraffin lube and black powder fouling, you end with something that resembles a low grade asphalt fouling in your bore.

Real Beeswax is available in the candle making department of the Michaels craft stores chain or most well equipped Hobby Shop stores.

[Southron]

OOPS!!!

A mistype in my above post:

The correct lube formula is: 60% Beeswax and 40% Thompson Center's Bore Butter.

[Omnivore]

When you combine the residue of a Paraffin lube and black powder fouling, you end with something that resembles a low grade asphalt fouling in your bore.

Not true. At least it's not true when the paraffin is used in Gatofeo #1 lube;
http://1858remington.com/discuss/index.php?topic=352.0

I've been using GF1 exclusively now for over a year, and I've been getting the best results ever. Use too little of any lube, and you'll get nasty, aweful fouling. Use enough and you'll not have any accumulation of fouling, which is the whole point. In a word; perfection.

For further study, and a detailed description of the methods I used to prove this (with photos), see here;
http://1858remington.com/discuss/index.php?topic=8975.0

You now have no excuse!

[Theditchman]

No...I sent rodger a pm a few days ago but have not received an answer...he must be away or something...I will send him another on wed

[johnson1942]

i didnt get the pm, that barrel is under sized. if you use the mold that came with the gun and make the bullets pure lead and lube them with lee alox and use the starter they will shoot very very well. use the 45 cal pistol wads between bullet and powder. about 70 grains of powder is just right. ive kept 1 inch groups or less with that gun. that probably is one of the most accurate guns ive ever made.

[Theditchman]

Thanks Roger...its down the range for me this sat..I will post the results