More Cadet Talk

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Impressive results indeed. The penetration equaling the .45 ACP's arises from having about as much metal behind each square millimeter of frontal area.You could have got better long range performance without that large meplat, but if you use the rifle for hunting, you have found how it is the way to get good expansion without a hollow point. With the velocities available in this rifle, I don't think anyone could better the performance of the 20:1 alloy, although a small proportion of wheelweights, to bring in antimony, would economise on the more expensive tin without bringing brittleness.

An old dodge for producing expansion was to sandwich a piece of cigarette paper in the mould, either all the way to the nose or stopping a little short of it. I think substituting aluminium foil, as I have done, would remove the possibility of trapped air or moisture creating a bubble. Ending up as a neatly forked bullet is perhaps unlikely. More likely it would break into three pieces, each decelerating more rapidly than the complete bullet would have done. But in some hunting situations that would be just fine.

[Hooker53]

Very Impressive Slug. I too have thought about something diff in the area of sights for mine. Out to 40/50 yards, the open sights seem ok but past that, not my eyes. Lol. 4.5 grns of Unique has been my heaviest but now you have me wondering wht an extra .5 would do lol. Keep this good info coming.

Roy
Hooker53

Here's Binky-Roo's (as I've come to call this rifle) 100-yard group with fire-formers. Looks like a keeper!

Attachment 134605
A little over 2", which for a thrown-together fire-former and coarse open sights ain't bad. I don't know the velocity (didn't bother bringing the chrono today) other than for sure 5 grains of Unique gets it supersonic.

I also did a short range milk jug test with two alloys - same 5 grain charge for both:
Attachment 134606
Left bullet - water-quenched wheel weights; stopped in gallon milk jug #9 (that's right kids - NINE gallons of water! - the same as it took to stop my same-alloy .45ACP 230gr LFN). The nose compressed about 1/16" from pre-firing, but that's about it for deformation.
Right bullet - 20-1; stopped in gallon jug #3

I'm rapidly learning that, while I probably will do a lot of mild loads with it, the .32-20 is no pipsqueak. I DO think I'm going to hunt down some more serious sights for it. I seem to be too old for opens. . .

[Bigslug]

Impressive results indeed. The penetration equaling the .45 ACP's arises from having about as much metal behind each square millimeter of frontal area.You could have got better long range performance without that large meplat. . .

I gave that quite a bit of thought before I ordered the mold. My inner target shooter started mumbling "gas-checked spitzer" when I saw the data on what the round could be capable of, but then reasoned that this rifle's main mission is life is "corrupting" my co-workers small boys. Kids like reactive targets, and the water bottles and cans bounce around a lot more when you hit them with a flat nose. . . and so do coyotes, for that matter. In retrospect, I'm glad I went on the stumpy side, as stuffing them into this particular action seems easier with shorter rounds. At any rate, I have other things for reaching across multiple time zones.

The 20-1 loads were a happy spin-off from my father's interests. We do all our casting at his place, and I had done all the wheelweight slugs the night before. Next day, I get a text that says, "Well, since I was pouring up this batch of paper-patch buffalo-smackers anyway. . ." It's enough to make me wanna be retired too. I'll probably play around with diluting wheelweight with pure lead until they behave similarly.

[Bigslug]

4.5 grns of Unique has been my heaviest but now you have me wondering wht an extra .5 would do lo

We decided that we weren't dealing with a "true" .32-20 on this one, but rather more of a ".310 Cadet Magnum", given the slightly larger bore volume, stronger action, knowledge these things get rebarreled for .357, etc... Didn't figure we were likely to rupture anything.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

We decided that we weren't dealing with a "true" .32-20 on this one, but rather more of a ".310 Cadet Magnum", given the slightly larger bore volume, stronger action, knowledge these things get rebarreled for .357, etc... Didn't figure we were likely to rupture anything.

Least of all the gun. Plenty of people use these actions for .22 centrefires, or cartridges which leave as little in the barrel threads as the .30-30 head diameter of the .219 Zipper does. I think they are safe with any normal .32-20 load.

[Hooker53]

Since sights came up for these guns and mine is the model #4 BSA. What type of front globe or hooded sight has most folks adapted to this gun? Mine has the little blade sitting on top of a block. IV seen plenty of Dovetail sights out there like the Lyman 17A but who would want to dovetail a gun like this? There's got to be something out there that would just slip over top of the present front sight.

Roy
Hooker53.

[Bigslug]

Roy,

My Cadet came with two barrels, both of which were modified-to-32-20 BSA's. Both of the front sights appear to be dovetailed in at Birmingham and brazed or silver-soldered in place, then the extra steel milled off to match the barrel contour - LOOK CLOSELY. It MAY be a standard 3/8" dovetail. IF that is the case and IF you can get the mother out, it should take a 17A once you figure out the height you need. I'm working out that plan of attack myself.

There is a Parker Hale front globe sight, but 17A's, still being made, will be a lot easier to find inserts for.

Numrich does indeed have the original sight hood for the Cadet. It will cost you $4.40 and it's worth every penny - in other words, IT SUCKS! Very small gap between the blade and the hood, and it won't lock into any kind of alignment.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I gave that quite a bit of thought before I ordered the mold. My inner target shooter started mumbling "gas-checked spitzer" when I saw the data on what the round could be capable of, but then reasoned that this rifle's main mission is life is "corrupting" my co-workers small boys. Kids like reactive targets, and the water bottles and cans bounce around a lot more when you hit them with a flat nose. . . and so do coyotes, for that matter. In retrospect, I'm glad I went on the stumpy side, as stuffing them into this particular action seems easier with shorter rounds. At any rate, I have other things for reaching across multiple time zones.

The 20-1 loads were a happy spin-off from my father's interests. We do all our casting at his place, and I had done all the wheelweight slugs the night before. Next day, I get a text that says, "Well, since I was pouring up this batch of paper-patch buffalo-smackers anyway. . ." It's enough to make me wanna be retired too. I'll probably play around with diluting wheelweight with pure lead until they behave similarly.

A steel gong is pretty reactive, and you have a rifle with which one of those will be everlasting. I've got a closeup photograph of the column of water thrown up by my friend's .22-250 from a quarter-mile off, while I crouched down behind a high earth bank. If your bullet actually ruptures water jugs, it should be a more than theoretical reminder to kids that guns are dangerous.

A friend of mine who worked on the new sewers of Istanbul brought over a Polish colleague and his family for a holiday on the farm. In less than an hour the 10-year-old was making very good groups from a sandbag with a .243 Improved rifle. But my own nephew of the same age was a rotten shot with my air rifle, and even worse, had no interest in improving. And people spend serious money being tested for a bad gene! He is an unsuccessful trendy printmaker now, but generally the trend before last, and earns his living in a garden centre.

[BigEyeBob]

That Martini looks like a good one. I don't know any receiver sight which would have had the two screws so close together, or at that upward angle. My guess is that someone adapted a sight (or perhaps even a rear scope mount) to a plate of his own manufacture.

Here is a website with detailed information on Parker-Hale and Alfred J. Parker sights. The website is worth pursuing around the various pages for information on the various BSA versions of the Cadet family. Among other things they introduced, in 1912, a purpose-made .32-20.


http://www.rifleman.org.uk/PH_Service_sights.htm

Might be something like this


Kev

[Hooker53]

I will endeed put on my glasses and take a closer look into that. If mine is of the dovetail vantage than that would be great.

Roy

Roy,

My Cadet came with two barrels, both of which were modified-to-32-20 BSA's. Both of the front sights appear to be dovetailed in at Birmingham and brazed or silver-soldered in place, then the extra steel milled off to match the barrel contour - LOOK CLOSELY. It MAY be a standard 3/8" dovetail. IF that is the case and IF you can get the mother out, it should take a 17A once you figure out the height you need. I'm working out that plan of attack myself.

There is a Parker Hale front globe sight, but 17A's, still being made, will be a lot easier to find inserts for.

Numrich does indeed have the original sight hood for the Cadet. It will cost you $4.40 and it's worth every penny - in other words, IT SUCKS! Very small gap between the blade and the hood, and it won't lock into any kind of alignment.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Might be something like this


Kev

I think it probably was, and that looks like an excellent sight. But unless it is some trick of a wide angle lens, the two holes in Bigslug's picture of his rifle looked like they were at an angle to the horizontal. I don't know if there would be any harm in having the sight canted slightly in a fore and aft direction, but I don't like it. There isn't the same imperative to mount the sight further forwards that there would be in a more heavily recoiling rifle, but it would still give a more comfortable grip.

Here is a picture of one of the easiest classic rounds to load for, the .255 Jeffery. You just grind about 1/10in. off the bottom of .25-20 dies, and shorten the case to match. The mould is an 80gr. gas-check which CBE in Australia supplied. They are more expensive now, but they do beautiful work, and I hear they have become very efficient since they stopped dealing through a dubious retailer.

http://uk.castbulletengineering.com.au/

[calaloo]

Hooker
There is an original sight protector that slips over the barrel to form a "tunnel" for the front sight. I bought one from Numrich Arms a few years ago but I just checked and they no longer have them listed. Bet you could find one if you looked hard enough. Maybe ebay.
Bill

[Hooker53]

I will check that out Bill and thanks.

Roy
Hooker53

[Bigslug]

I think it probably was, and that looks like an excellent sight. But unless it is some trick of a wide angle lens, the two holes in Bigslug's picture of his rifle looked like they were at an angle to the horizontal.

No trick of the lens - they do appear to be crooked. . .at least relative to the Birmingham Small Arms rollmark. How it runs relative to the bore I can't say, but rather than search the world over for a sight that happens to match that hole pattern, and ALSO happens to have a windage scale that roughly centers over the receiver without shimming, it seemed A LOT easier to find a sight made to sit on a baby Martini and make the necessary holes for it.

[Hooker53]

Hey Bigslug. You are right. I put on my Mynockulars and sure enough, that front sight is in a dove tail. It is fitted so tight and close I would hate to try a brass drift on that little block sight though. At first I might try to look/wait for one of the slip on hoods like Bill was talking about. It would be nice to have something on there that has interchangeable inserts though. Getting kinda attached to the
little round insert on my Lyman 17A. Lol

Roy
Hooker53

[Bigslug]

A couple further observations:

1. Re. the crooked holes. Not so. The BSA rollmark on the left side appears to have been indicated off the bottom edge of the receiver, and is parallel to that. It's not even close to parallel to the bore. In fact, if you extend the line that the rollmark is on, it crosses the top surface of the barrel about even with the back edge of the rear sight. With the rollmark discounted as a reference point, the holes that whichever previous owner drilled for a side-mount sight appear to be straight.

2. I found a spare Lyman 17A front sight in my garage, and held it up to the dovetail for the front sight. The U.S. standard 3/8" dovetail appears to be a straight-up match for whatever the Brits were doing before the Great War.

I've got my rear tang sight courtesy of Calaloo. Should be off to see the 'smith shortly. At the very least, the rear sight is going A-WAY, and we'll make the front sight assessment at that time. Sights I can see. . .an extra 10" of radius. . .this oughta be good!

[Hooker53]

Yep. Been working up the courage to drill my receiver for the #8. Getting a good mark on it for an automatic center punch is a real chore. The little sight has no where to hold and line it up square to get the mark. Like all set-ups, I will prevail but right now tryi g to find the best way. On my sight , and I'm sure on all, the two holes is counter sunk so you don't get but one chance. I know I can set it up in my mill with an angle vise, but trying to Fig a way, off hand. Good luck Bigslug.

[Hooker53]

Well, I got this little guy (#8 tang sight) on there. Now all I have to do is get the old rear sight off. I took it down spring and all, guess what? The thing is soldered on. That means I will have to touch the blue up on it after it comes off. Thats more aggrevating that tapping and drilling for the tang sight to me! Tried to upload a photo or too but they are to big. I will cut the size and upload later. Bigslug, you ready to go shooting yet?? Ha.

[calaloo]

Hooker
Hold on to those barrel sight screws they are rare. I've made a few and that ain't no fun.

[Hooker53]

You Bet Calaloo. I can understand that. I'v made a bunch of 0-80 .250 long and can't imagine what you talking about on those little short ones. I always keep that stuff because you never know when you might need it. I finnaly got the place the sight was, blued and blended after about 8 touch bluings and burnishings. Ha. Came out fair. Can't wait to shoot it. Well lets see if the photo's will post. OK Resized them and they posted. Im tickled pink on these one. Thanks Calaloo. Now I think I want to start buying a few diff riticals for this one and keep them in the case. I don't think the Lyman's will fit the Parker-Hales but have not checked into it yet.



Roy
Hooker53