Building Bottom Pour Smelting Pot

[jeepvet]

Ok, finally finished the pot today. It works pretty good but needs some tweeking. Might have to re-engineer the valve but plan on continuing along the learning curve somemore first.



Sorry about the picture size. I can't figure out how to get them larger. But here is my finished pot ready for the first lead.



Here are the first 29 Lee 1# ingots from the pot. It was much easier and faster than a dutch oven and ladle, but there are still a lot of details to work out about the operation.

A question: Why do all of the ingots have a discolored area? This is pure soft lead. Is the problem the temperature, too cold or too hot?

[blaser.306]

The pure lead you are casting is what is causing the purple / blue and gold hues. Heat does this. Nice pot by the way. I have been entertaining the same sort of idea, the only thing I would possibly change would be a second vessel for the actual melting / skimming of dross and asst. Misc. . I could see contamination of the pouring spout and or valve being an issue. I just don't know how long it would take for 100 ish LBS of molten lead to drain out if the valve became fouled? Just thinking out loud ( from a safety standpoint )

[jeepvet]

Well, I can tell you that it will not take very long to drain out 100ish# of molten lead if the valve gets fouled and stuck wide open. That 3/4" pipe will flow pretty fast. That is what the eye bolt is on top. That is set up as an adjustable stop so that the valve can not open too much. Lead can still flow fast, but I will have my dutch oven handy to help catch overflow if needed. That does not fix the possible problem, but maybe it will help the safety factor some.

I am having a problem understanding your idea of the second vessel. The way I am envisioning your use of a second vessel seems to defeat the whole purpose of this large smelting pot. Maybe I am just not seeing what you are saying correctly.

Please keep the ideas coming, the help is always appreciated.

[blaser.306]

My only thought is to have the lead cleaned of dirt debris / clips as in my mind skimming these items would be problematic with the additional obstructions in the bottom pour pot. May just be over-thinking a problem that doesn't exist. If it works, don't fix it!

[jeepvet]

You are right. The obstructions were much more bothersome than I had expected and it did make skimming much harder. But the melting and pouring were so much easier that I feel it is a good trade off.

I guess my concern about the second pot is how do I get the clean molten lead from it into the bottom pour pot? Pouring would seem to be a much less safe issue than the stuck valve issue.

Thanks for letting me put mind together with yours to work out this issue.

[JSnover]

I guess my concern about the second pot is how do I get the clean molten lead from it into the bottom pour pot? Pouring would seem to be a much less safe issue than the stuck valve issue.

I don't think most people go straight from one pot to the other. The first pot would be used to clean the trash out of your 'rough' lead. Those clean ingots would be put aside for boolit casting later. That way they don't gum the valve in your bottom pour pot.

[jeepvet]

Ok, gotcha. But I am using this bottom pour pot to smelt and clean up my raw wheel weights and pour into ingot molds. I then place those ingots into my Lee 20# pot to cast out of later.

I am doing this to try to save time during the original smelting process and to make it easier than the dutch oven/ladle process I have been using.

[JSnover]

Ok, gotcha. But I am using this bottom pour pot to smelt and clean up my raw wheel weights and pour into ingot molds. I then place those ingots into my Lee 20# pot to cast out of later.

I am doing this to try to save time during the original smelting process and to make it easier than the dutch oven/ladle process I have been using.

Then I'd say you're good to go. The pot looks nice, you already know about keeping the spout clear. Enjoy!

[jeepvet]

Thanks. The biggest problem that will require a learning curve is that the long spout keeps the lead flowing for some time after the valve is closed. You really have to learn when to stop the pour so as not to make a huge mess at the hot end. Maybe I can dream up a valve to go at the pour end....

Will have to read some more threads and steal some more ideas.

[truckerdave397]

Has anybody ever tried a quarter turn gas valve for a valve for pouring lead? They would be cheap and easy if they would work. They come in brass and steel. Stay away from the plastic handles. Keep it in a spot where it would get lots of heat. Just a thought.

[shadowcaster]

jeepvet... Well, I can tell you that it will not take very long to drain out 100ish# of molten lead if the valve gets fouled and stuck wide open. That 3/4" pipe will flow pretty fast. That is what the eye bolt is on top. That is set up as an adjustable stop so that the valve can not open too much. Lead can still flow fast, but I will have my dutch oven handy to help catch overflow if needed. That does not fix the possible problem, but maybe it will help the safety factor some.

If you have to be ready to catch over flow due to problems.. Then I think there is a flaw in the design.

Shad

[shadowcaster]

blaser.306... My only thought is to have the lead cleaned of dirt debris / clips as in my mind skimming these items would be problematic with the additional obstructions in the bottom pour pot. May just be over-thinking a problem that doesn't exist. If it works, don't fix it!

You don't run into any of those problems when using a "Shad Style" Bottom pour Spout and pot.

truckerdave397... Has anybody ever tried a quarter turn gas valve for a valve for pouring lead? They would be cheap and easy if they would work. They come in brass and steel. Stay away from the plastic handles. Keep it in a spot where it would get lots of heat. Just a thought.

Most of those valves have plastic or teflon in them.. It won't work

Shad

[ssnow]

Still working out the kinks in the valve system. Trying to figure out how much water leakage is allowable before lead leakage will occur. Right now it only leaks about a 5 drop string every 5 - 10 seconds or so with about 1/2 - 3/4 gallon of water in tank. In the process of lapping the valve into the bottom of the tank fitting but the drill battery died.

Will post more pictures as the project progresses.

More suggestions or problems seen? All help is greatly appreciated.

Here is a link for my pot;

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...-out-at-BruceB)

In that thread, I mention that my first valve leaked, so I built the one pictured. At first, I thought the original valve would be fine because it was water tight. Fill the pot with water and it would not leak. So we (or at least I) assumed that water tight would be lead tight. Wrong

Lead has much more pressure against the valve than water........and the expansion due to heat may have played a role in the leakage as well. The point is, take extra care with the valve to avoid leaks.

Anyway, Congrats on the build. A pot like that is so much easier and faster to work with vs. the Dutch oven and ladle technique. It's a game changer.

[MarkP]

Here are some screenshots of the cad model for the pot I built. I built this to replace an older pot I built that it is a manual pour type. It made me a little nervous pouring molten lead from an 80+ lb pot. I made this one 15" in diameter for melting wheel weights. I wanted to extra volume to process a 5 gallon bucket in one shot. However, my main lead source has been reclaimed shot, due to availability and price and ease of use.
While melting down reclaimed shot, I had severe leaks. The shot had some steel shot mixed in and somehow it stuck on the valve face. I had about 25 lbs of shot in it which when melted just covers the bottom of the pot (flat bottom) but the valve seat is recessed 3/8" below the bottom of the pot. The valve seat is fabricated from 2" round stock. I used an 82 deg cutter (FHCS) for the valve seat, and turned the pin (blue part) with same angle.

I have some electro magnets to pull out most of the steel prior to melting.

For the burner unit I used a banjo burner / Cajun cooker and regulator. It melts very quickly.

[ascast]

I am very interested in your "spout" I want to build something similar but I may need a longer spout. I hope your stays hot enough to pour, and has a 2uick heat up time.
keep us posted

[3jimbo3]

jeepvet,

That looks almost identical to the one I'm building, with the exception of, I didn't think of making a lid for mine. On the one I'm working on, I chamfered the pour hole and using a lever to open and close a stopper. I just used a finishing wheel on my small grinder to tapper off the stopper to seal off in the pour hole.

Putting a ring around the bottom like that really helps with heating too.

I also had the galvanized problem, I just burnt it off with a torch. It welds better that way too.


I just noticed the second set of pics you listed. Man I tell you, it looks like we shared ideas and built these side by side. They are almost twins.

[jeepvet]

Well 3jimbo3, proves the old saying, "great minds think alike".

I did have problems controlling the flow with the 3/4" plumbing so I traded it for 1/2". Today I re-cast a lot of soft lead muffins into 1# Lee ingots. The muffins were not level and did not stack well. Now I have about 250 ingots that stack in about 1/2 the space of the muffins. They are also prettier.

I did have a little problem with spout drip, but I have a Lee 20# pot, so I know how to handle that pesky drip. Just wait until it stops and put it back into the pot. I also learned that it heats much faster with the lid slightly ajar. If you put the lid on tightly it takes much longer. Go Figure.

Also learned that even a little cool breeze on the pot will cool it off quickly and make the lead "sludgy". Just put up a wind break, no problems. During the first refill with the tight lid, the spout did freeze but that was easily fixed with a propane pencil torch.

So, some of you machinists or welders may laugh or poke fun at my ugly pot, or you engineers may find fault with my design. And I will admit that all of you are correct. But, I now have a bottom pour smelting pot that is easier to use than a dutch oven and ladle, it will hold lots of lead safely, I built it myself without a lathe or milling machine or other fancy, expensive tools and I only have about $15 in it.

Thanks for all of the help and giving me ideas from your pots to steal. Now, on to the quest for wheel weights to feed the monster.

[3jimbo3]

I think your pot looks great. Functionality is the goal here……looks are just a bonus!


On the drip problem……. I have been toying with the idea of making the stopper adjustable (kind of like the Lee 10 pound pots) to help seal off and it should help remove contaminates. In theory anyway. Mine isn't finished yet so if you try this before I get mine complete let me know how it works. I had already used the 1/2" plumbing and was wondering how well it would work. Sounds like it will do fine.

What I'm finishing up on now on my pot is attaching the burner to the pot itself, I had an extra one laying around, so I'm building legs and a base that will have the burner close to the bottom of the pot. It will be all one unit (yeah I will need a set of hand trucks to wheel it out side) but should be very safe and easy to use.

When I get it done I will be posting some pics, if I can figure that part out. I'm still trying to post some of the pid I built, with the help of a few members on here, but no luck yet. That was about 6 months ago…..just saying.

Great job, happy smelting

[jeepvet]

Well so much for bonus points. I am not sure if the drip problem is an actual leak or just lead dripping from the long snout. It is kind of hard to know exactly when to close the valve to get just the right amount of lead. The drip does stop in short order so I don't think it is a leak.

I got a Lee 10# pot as a "also sent" when I bought a press from a guy on craigslist. It is about 3/4 full of lead but I have not heated it up and drained it so I don't know what kind of valve it has. I guess I need to get on that and see what you have in mind. Might want to steal that idea too.

Good luck with the hand trucks. Mine always has at least one flat every time I need it. I hate repairing flats anytime I want to use it.

As far as posting pics, the only way I can figure out how to do it is put them on my desktop, open a "Quick Reply" screen here and use the "Insert Image" icon thingy at the top of the post (third from the right). Open the computer tab, go to the desktop and open the picture you want and download. It will not look the same in the "Quick Reply" window as it does in the final post. Since I am such a computer expert, you might want to run it by someone else first. As a disclaimer, I am not responsible for any computer smoke release or other hiccups that might occur based on my instruction.

[jeepvet]

By the way, the handle is removable and comes apart in the middle so it is be out of the way to flux and also stored inside the pot. If you are interested in how I did that, let me know and I will take pictures and post them.