Automated Master Caster

[hagel]

Yep, that's why so many indoor ranges don't want you to use lead bullets anymore. This is the kind of stuff Lawyer's wet dreams are made of.

To be honest with you I'm far less concerned with contamination due to handling ingots and bullets than I am with cleaning up around the machines after casting. It's kind of surprising how much in the way of tiny particles of lead you get on the floor. I currently use a broom and dust pan but I'm thinking that maybe I should use a HEPA filtered vacuum cleaner instead.

On another front, I ran my .240/#4 buck mold yesterday. Boy is that a tricky one to dial in. You have to run hot and fast with it. I sprayed the mold with a dry graphite lube prior to casting (didn't want to do it after the mold was hot because I was afraid that the solvent/carrier liquid or propellant in the spray might ignite). By the end of the day I had it working pretty good. I left the mold in the machine and I am going to try it again with even shorter times (no double tap - takes too much time for this tiny little stuff). still, I don't think I will be able to get it to work as a product as it takes too long to make the stuff. If you just want to make yourself a batch of #4 buck though then I wanted to let everyone know that you can do it with Magma's .240 mold. If you're interested in trying PM me and I'll tell you how I pulled it off.

Going to try the .340/00 buck mold after I do one more run with the .240.

Oh, almost forgot, just ordered the parts to semi-automate my Star. The way I'm going to set this up for now is to hand feed the bullets one at a time (that way I inspect for casting flaws at the same time). I will be dropping them into the sizing die with my left hand and then hitting a momentary switch with my left hand with a limit switch used to return the cylinder to top. I can tap the power supply on one of my PLCs for the 24 v needed to power the air valve solenoids. Forcing myself to hit a button with the hand that I just dropped a bullet with may insure that I don't end up with any round holes in the fingers of my left hand. Originally I was going to use a foot switch but then I started thing about my buddy Tom. Tom is missing his left hand.

Anyhow, I'll post vids and pics of it when it is up and running. Once again, for those of you who aren't casting huge quantities the simple foot lever arrangement I am using on my Star might be a good thing. You get to lube and size your bullets and fight the "Battle of the Bulge" all at the same time.

[Tazza]

I used to shoot at an indoor range, they had massive fans sucking air from behind you to the front and out to reduce the amount of lead you are exposed to.

The club i am at now is outdoor, so that is not an issue. 99% of the ammo used there is plated in one way or another. Pretty well all the projectiles you buy at the shops is coated with a non stick coating to reduce your exposure.

[wymanwinn]

i must be doing something wrong...i cast all bullets (9mm/125gr to .45Colt/250gr) at 725°F, fan on, original Hatch/Wyman Air Assisted programming and 99.999% of my bullets drop out of the molds without problems....i do make sure the molds are clean and sprue/mold top and guide rails are lubed with Bull-Plate...pretty much set-it and forget-it, although i never leave the Master Caster unattended as i generally start loading tubes to feed the Automated Star after about 30 minutes of casting....

Happy New Year to all of my Bullet Casting Friends...

wyman

[Tazza]

Jmorris had a 9mm mold that did just that. My 9mm one releases pretty well, but there are still times that one gets stuck from time to time.

Happy new year to you too, i hope everyone stays safe and has a great time

[HATCH]

Some molds drop easy. Others I had to polish.
Wyman is running the original release. No improved safety's and most likely original timing 2,6,2

[jmorris]

Yeah the "good deal" used 9mm mold I bought has one side that doesn't like to drop, the brass tappers fixed the problem.

[hagel]

I don't have enough experience with iron molds or automated machines yet to say much. However, I sure do hope I can get to the same point you have ASAP. I really envy you. You must be really good or really lucky and maybe both. Good to be you I guess.

Hatch: polishing - dremel and Semichrome?

Also, here's wishing all of you a happy new year. You've all been incredibly helpful and I doubt that you will ever know just how much I appreciate it. I really do wish you all the best.

i must be doing something wrong...i cast all bullets (9mm/125gr to .45Colt/250gr) at 725°F, fan on, original Hatch/Wyman Air Assisted programming and 99.999% of my bullets drop out of the molds without problems....i do make sure the molds are clean and sprue/mold top and guide rails are lubed with Bull-Plate...pretty much set-it and forget-it, although i never leave the Master Caster unattended as i generally start loading tubes to feed the Automated Star after about 30 minutes of casting....

Happy New Year to all of my Bullet Casting Friends...

wyman

[HATCH]

Flitz metal polish

[Tazza]

Hagel - that's the great thing about this forum, the members are happy to share their knowledge and expect nothing in return. Every day I look on here I learn something new. I too doubt these people know just how much it it appreciated. I know for sure, I'd have never attempted automating my mc without the help of people on here. With their improvements I adapted too with a double acting cylinder. Hopefully more to come to make it even more awesome

[ProfGAB101]

Flitz metal polish

Flitz is the bomb! How did man move forward in evolution with out the perfect "soft tools".

[hagel]

I have an interesting exchange going on with the head of the mechanical Engineering Dept at OU. I offered to let some of his students visit my shop and he thinks this is a good idea. Really, that does make sense since I am essentially building a small scale factory. Well, maybe more of a micro scale factory.

Anyhow, I think this will lead to more student projects. I have five possibilities in mind:

1. Simple two mold "rocker style" casting machine based on the MC design.

2. Non contact mold temp/ fan control system to allow for optimal mold temp without wires or the necessity of modifying molds for thermocouple installation.

3. PID temp control of the lead pot temp (I know, this has been worked out but doing it would be a good project for some of the students).

4. A better setup for auto-loading bullets on the Star. Major objectives to be no damage to bullets and increased reliability.

5. A rill plate, adjustable shot making machine based on standard, readily available parts (automotive wheel bearings, hub assemblies, etc...).

You guys have way more experience in using iron molds and casting machines than I do. In a year or so that will change to a certain extent as I will be running three machines and producing enough (hopefully) to earn a modest living. But remember, right now most of my experience is with aluminum hand molds. So how about throwing in your two cents on this. Maybe this could help us all out.

[jmorris]

Anyhow, I think this will lead to more student projects. I have five possibilities in mind:

I think you might be going about this in the wrong way.

When I was going to SMU, I joined the minibaja SAE competition team ran by the mechanical engineering dept, they had other stuff too but I picked it because I was a "car guy" in general and raced in the dirt as a kid.

Point being, the best way to get kids deeply involved in something is to let them pick what that is going to be.

[hagel]

In a perfect world you would be absolutely right. Unfortunately I live here on planet earth. A little ways away from perfect but it's all I've got so I have to work with it.

The program at OU is intended to give the students experience responding to requests for them to use their engineering expertise. They refer to the person presenting to proposed project as "the customer". Bottom line, I can't just go to them and ask what they want to do. I have to go to them and present them with a project and let them decide if they are interested.

Fortunately in any group of young people who aspire to become mechanical engineers you are likely to find several who play with guns and maybe even cast bullets. In my last go around I ended up with five guys who all owned and used firearms and were very enthusiastic about the project. I got lucky and I don't think those boys will ever really know just how grateful I am for their help.

It is my hope that having more of the students tour my shop that some of them will find something here that really grabs their interest. Who knows, I may even find one or more of them who want to build a better automated caster that ultimately rivals the best currently available. In any case I sure do look forward to having the chance to maybe get some young, bright engineers interested in casting. I think it's important to get more young people interested in firearms and everything related to them. There are too many people in this world who see guns as inherently evil things instead of just a hobby like all of us see them.

I think you might be going about this in the wrong way.

When I was going to SMU, I joined the minibaja SAE competition team ran by the mechanical engineering dept, they had other stuff too but I picked it because I was a "car guy" in general and raced in the dirt as a kid.

Point being, the best way to get kids deeply involved in something is to let them pick what that is going to be.

[hagel]

Do any of you guys know anything about a skew rolling mill?

[Tazza]

I just lookdd up what they are, very fancy. Did you want one fo make lead free buck shot? I'd fear to get a price on one and the running cost. I wonder if it's gas heated or induction.

[hagel]

Actually I am wondering if it would be a better way than casting to produce 00 buck. As for buying one, that is out of the question. What I am thinking about is proposing this to the next batch of ME students. If I build an extruder based on an HF 10 ton manual log splitter (read about that on here somewhere) I could make wire just a few thousands larger than the finished size of the shot so the skew mill wouldn't face the pressures associated with making steel balls. No way of telling at this point but I think the axles and most of the drive system could be built from a reclaimed rear drive differential and the axles. Wheel bearings should be able to handle the associated pressures. PTO shafts could be used to transmit the force from the gearbox to the angled mill axles.

In short, it wouldn't be easy but it would make an interesting project for the ME students and could be divided between two teams. One could do the mill and the other could do the drive system. The graduated screw mill sleeves would definitely be a sophisticated CNC milling operation but I ran across a Russian research paper with the math for developing the shapes.

I just lookdd up what they are, very fancy. Did you want one fo make lead free buck shot? I'd fear to get a price on one and the running cost. I wonder if it's gas heated or induction.

[Tazza]

Interesting idea, i can't see why it wouldn't work either.

The steel is heated so it's soft enough to form, lead in it's natural state could quite possibly be soft enough to form without heating. Can the 00 be made from soft lead? i thought some of the smaller stuff (no 7 and 9) was quite hard, but being small it may need to be so it does it's job better.

I'd like to see how that goes, it may be a very fast way to "cast" 00 buck and possibly slightly smaller stuff that you can still form.

[hagel]

I can't see why it wouldn't work either. I think the same alloy I am using now would work.

I'm thinking of it as an alternative method of producing 00 and #4 buck. It looks like it would be faster and cheaper than casting. I also think a skew rolling mill would be smaller, easier to make and easier to use than a rill plate machine. I could be wrong on that though so that's why I threw the idea out there to see what other people thought about it.

[Tazza]

Why use the same expensive alloy when cheap scrap roofing lead would work? Keep your costs down.

I think it would be a lot faster than casing too

[hagel]

Availability is the main issue. If I can get a machine put together and it works then I will certainly search for less expensive feedstock.