Pyrodex

[oldred]

oldred, I have a box of Winchester 45-70 with 300 grain soft nose bullets. The info on the box states that the velocity is 1800 fps. I believe it. I fired one in a heavy barreled Siameze Mauser I have and it really coldcocked me. I talked Buckshot into firing two and the range master fired one. I braced myself and tried two more rounds. Others have helped to clear the brass. I have eight unfired. I just want the brass. I don't know what powder they put in the cases or how much but it is enough and I am confident there are no fillers between powder and bullet.. I wouldn't dream of shooting one of these rounds in a trapdoor. One of the well known black powder shooters [ I think it was Steve Garbe] wrote an article about using wads over smokeless and he says every rifle he examined so used had ringed chambers. Others say it isn't so.

I failed to mention the 45/70 rounds I pulled were the 405 grain Trapdoor level loads and it was years ago, however I think they still use the same load in the 405 grain round. I pulled the bullets on the rounds I was talking about with the intention of using the componants for a heavier load for my Marlin 1895, those cases sure had a lot of air space with no wads or fillers.

With the obscene prices for factory loads these days I have serious doubts I will ever shoot another one.

[fouronesix]

oldred, I have a box of Winchester 45-70 with 300 grain soft nose bullets. The info on the box states that the velocity is 1800 fps. I believe it. I fired one in a heavy barreled Siameze Mauser I have and it really coldcocked me. I talked Buckshot into firing two and the range master fired one. I braced myself and tried two more rounds. Others have helped to clear the brass. I have eight unfired. I just want the brass. I don't know what powder they put in the cases or how much but it is enough and I am confident there are no fillers between powder and bullet.. I wouldn't dream of shooting one of these rounds in a trapdoor. One of the well known black powder shooters [ I think it was Steve Garbe] wrote an article about using wads over smokeless and he says every rifle he examined so used had ringed chambers. Others say it isn't so.

To anyone interested- pay attention to above post reference the Winchester factory ammo^^. Back about 1995 (+/-) I shot some of those same Winchester factory rounds in a Marlin GG lever. Too much is not an overstatement! I don't know if anyone has ever Kaboomed a trapdoor with that ammo, but I would never- ever shoot it in a trapdoor! It cannot be compared to the Remington 405 gr factory loads… that are fairly mild and are suited for the trapdoor.

Yes, neither of those (modern Win or Rem) factory 45-70 loads have any kind of filler or wad. The Winchester stuff obviously would be loaded with one of their ball powders. I'd guess the Remington (so called trapdoor ammo) 405 gr stuff would be loaded with something like 4198 or 3031 or similar powder to a velocity and pressure more or less in line with BP specs.

There is a huge difference between wad and filler and correct use of either- but that discussion has been beaten to death. I'll leave it for someone else.

[triggerhappy243]

I have to say too, I have used pyrodex rs for over 30 years. I clean as soon as i am done shooting. and I still have the same barrels........... clean, brite and shiny. you just have to be anal about your cleaning techniques. when in doubt, clean it again.

[Tackleberry41]

I have used Pyrodex, was I time I didnt know any better. It worked the little muzzle loader shooting I did. And as pointed out it is considerably easier to get than the real stuff. Most guns stores will have it or 777 or another sub sitting on a shelf. Wal mart carries it parts of the year. Real BP, its an hour and a half to Bass pro, or similar drive to one other place I know of here that has it. Again as pointed out storage is alot of headaches most places dont want to deal with for the few sales they will get. Your average ML user just wants it to go bang so arent going to seek out the real stuff.

I finally had to break down and order some, ff or fff is about all your going to find in stock, and they will only have one brand. So if you want anything else its the only way to get it. Smallest order I could find was 5lbs at a time. Do alot of shooting may not last so long, but for most will sit a long time gathering dust. I have no intention of throwing away the various subs I have picked up, they do still go boom.

Its odd I know a guy whos really big into BP shooting, some club hes a member of, this range on some property he owns they use sometimes. I figured he would have a large stock pile of it, no just 2 or 3 lbs at a time. Buys more when he needs it.

[ColColt]

If you shoot much at all five pounds of Swiss won't last that long. I've already been through a pound of it in the past 4-6 weeks. I order five or more pounds at a time from Powder, Inc and they usually have in stock what I want.

http://www.powderinc.com/catalog/

[Don McDowell]

I shot 2/3 of a pound of Eynsford yesterday, just fireforming and load testing 50 rounds for the 44-90 st... 5 lbs.is not very much powder..

[ColColt]

Now, that's one powder I've been wanting to try. Does it burn as clean as Swiss?

[Don McDowell]

Cleaner.

[ColColt]

Looks like an order is in the making.

[Don McDowell]

Order the same F as you did Swiss, and leave your measure set where it's at. Try a few and then go up 2 grs. Most folks that are shooting both powders report 2 grs more of Eynsford puts them right where they were with Swiss. YMMV..

[ColColt]

Thanks, I was about to ask whether 1.5 or 2F would be better. I'm using the 1.5 in the 45-70 with good results...normally if I do my part.

[beroen]

I don't use Pyrodex and don't ask me what I think of it

^^^ ditto ^^^


GOEX all the way

[country gent]

I bought a mixed case ( 25 lbs) of swiss 1.5 F and 2F Old Ensford 1.5F and 2 f it was heavy on the 2F Old ensford. The old ensford is burning very clean in my 40-65 at 56 grns charge wieght. I have very light fouling and a couple breaths thru the blow tube seems to be controling the fouling. It meters well and seems very consistant so far. My load ios 400 grn Old West Nasa bullet ( one large grease groove and a shallower seating depth) Starline brass, trimmed, annealed, deburred with vld angle deburring cutter, Flash holes deburred, and primer pockets uniformed. Rem large rifle primers hand seated. 56 grns Old Ensford 2f powder compressed with .060 Napa rubber fiber wad to .465 from case mouth. Bullet seated to just compress another .005. This is working for me very well now. I havent started working with the swiss powders yet. I was using GOEX 2 f before and struggling some. I am impressed with the diffrences in using the Old Ensford

[beroen]

My reasons for asking about Pyrodex or simple. In commiefornia black powder is getting more difficult to get. About the only way to obtain it is by ordering it. I talked to a distributer yesterday and he said, "dealing in PB is just too much trouble. Govt agents swoop down on you and you have to spend 3-4 hours taking inventory and accounting for every pound. If one is missing, you are in for a big hassle". The man went on to tell me that he sells a lot of Pyrodex. I have never used Pyrodex or any other substitute nor do I want to. I have never heard anything good about any of them. I gave away 3 pounds of the stuff two years ago when we moved into are present digs. I have several large caliber black powder rifles and I do love to shoot black powder in them. I went to the range in Yucca Valley, Ca. two days ago and the man running the range asked me where you could buy black powder and I told him I would check when I got home and call him back. I came home, got on the phone and called many gun shops. Most don't even answer the phone, you leave a message. The stores that did answer had no idea where you could get any black powder. The man at the range also said," since the military no longer uses black powder that there isn't as much profit in its MFG as there used to be".

Is there no local muzzleloader club around you?

They usually do club buys on black and would be glad to help out.

[ColColt]

I had five pounds of Goex 2F but after buying Swiss 1.5 I don't know that I'll ever go back to Goex. Not only is Swiss cleaner but groups are much better. I look forward to trying Olde Ensyford soon.

[country gent]

Im going to burn up the last few pounds of goex in my muzzle loaders. On the 50 and 54 it wont take long LOL

[ColColt]

Maybe I should dust off my old Zouave 58 cal and burn that Goex up I have. At 70-90 gr per charge it shouldn't take too long either.

[beroen]

I had five pounds of Goex 2F but after buying Swiss 1.5 I don't know that I'll ever go back to Goex. Not only is Swiss cleaner but groups are much better. I look forward to trying Olde Ensyford soon.

I would like to try those soon also.. need to ask at the LGS if they can get me some next time they order GOEX

[GOPHER SLAYER]

Is there no local muzzleloader club around you?

They usually do club buys on black and would be glad to help out.

The only gun clubs I know of close by are cowboy action shooters and they don't shoot BP. There are PBCS matches near San Diego but the drive and getting there on time make it impossible for me to attend. I rarely see anyone shooting a muzzle loader anymore.

[ColColt]

I got 2 # of Olde Eynsford today and by looks it's very similar to Goex...coarser grains. I used the same 64 gr charge that I use with Swiss and had to compress the Eynsford an additional .125" to be able to seat the bullet the same OAL as with Swiss. Anxious to try it out but not until it warms up.