Very Glad I found this forum/ what i've learned about PC so far

[meicalnissyen]

So,
I recently got back into shooting, am inherently cheep, and capable of most levels of DIY

after running my first batch of cast, I discovered that pan lube is a huge waste of time, and while trying to dodge the cost of setting up a lubysizer, discovered PC here in this very section

After a few hundred rounds in 45 colt and 500 s&w, and reading thru the endless number of threads, I have formed a few opinions.

PC is a tool, just like any other, not magic

Its effectiveness is very dependent on the type of shooting you do / boolits used

the "best" method of application varies greatly on boolit shape, but ES is really not that much money,saves time, and is inherently more even

PC has great advantages in handling, loading, and shooting do to its non sticky, nasty attributes

anything touching the boolit during baking, that has overspray on it, will leave PC "flag" burrs. These will affect accuracy unless removed by hand

I think its reasonable to believe that traditional lube is completely gone from the boolit by the time it is a few feet from the muzzle. this means that the lube has nearly zero aerodynamic effect. PC is along for the ride all the way and long range, uber accuracy is heavily dependent on the evenness of the coating to avoid uneven spin balance.


The rest of this is kinda specific to non HP, large meplat, heavy, easy to handle, low volume production, pretty good expectation of accuracy, boolits

I have a few molds now, (THANKS DAN)
one is a 555gr long nose borerider, I wanted to keep that free of PC, and recover overspray
The first pic is of that epic fail.

I bought aluminum tube with an ID a few thou over the BR dia. cut it up into 1 inch pieces and JB welded them to a piece of hardwarecloth stretched over a aluminum frame made to fit my oven.

brilliant idea

Never even got the first test batch of dardas 335gr plinking bullets to release off the tubes.

I then scored a roll of NSRW and setup up a batch of my 555's

I wanted the bases fully coated to avoid a perceived avenue to leading, and set them up nose down.
this left PC goobers all over the nose radius (no noted issue with the extra BR dia from the unsized PC, in fact, it helps) these goobers had to be nicely filed off on at a time

Soooo,
pic 2,3,4. My 440gr Keith, currently base down, sitting on a #6 flatwasher.

this keeps PC off the base so there is no fillet "flag" to be removed, and are stable so I can rotate during spray, and transfer to oven without tipping over (to much) .
they release clean, 100% with no baked PC on the boolit touching anything else, and resize easily, ready to load

I dotted the tips on some that were cast the best to Identify later, kinda over did that, live and learn

I can make 50 of these pretty painlessly and thats plenty to shoot thru the BFR

pic 5,6 is a lee mold I used a 29/64 reamer to remove the lube grooves, the color is a lighting effect. they come in at 325+gr.
shoot fairly well, I have trouble being precise with that 3moa millet dot at 100yds


Hope this helps, and chime in with observations!!

[popper]

Now you get to try the ASBBDT to solve your problems, or HTC.

[xacex]

I have to agree that the air soft BB method, and baked on non stick foil is the way to go for about 80% of the types of applications we are trying to cover. I get a thinner, even coat this way, and besides looks does just as well as electrostatic spraying. I can repeatedly do sub 2" groups at nearly 2200FPS in the 300 blackout with this method, and some have done sub MOA with this method at 100 yards. Paper patches are very accurate, and also do not always leave the boolit like traditional lubes so I believe accuracy is a result of loading practice, or other factors. Many have noticed a reduction of velocity indicating the lubricity of the powder coat, and the need to increase charge in many cases. Then there is Poppers observation of boolit fit, and increases accuracy with reducing boolit size vs traditionally lubed boolits.I had to completely change my load for PC boolits vs traditionally lubed boolits, and the loads are similar, but not the same as jacketed. There are several factors at play, and since this is still in its infancy no single person has solved all of the questions. Welcome, and enjoy the ride. This will be fun! BTW, I like the marker on the meplat. If we could do the same on the bottom with a glow in the dark PC you may get a nice cold tracer effect. I ordered some glow PC, but the fella on ebay flaked on me, and I never got my product.

[cstrickland]

I have to agree that the air soft BB method, and baked on non stick foil is the way to go for about 80% of the types of applications we are trying to cover. I get a thinner, even coat this way, and besides looks does just as well as electrostatic spraying. .

do you have any examples of this you could post ?? seems it should be the other way around, thinner on the ES and thicker on the ASBBDT. Not saying its not true, but if you had some examples you can post as I have been looking for some

thanks
charlie

[meicalnissyen]

I have to agree that the air soft BB method, and baked on non stick foil is the way to go for about 80% of the types of applications we are trying to cover. I get a thinner, even coat this way, and besides looks does just as well as electrostatic spraying. I can repeatedly do sub 2" groups at nearly 2200FPS in the 300 blackout with this method, and some have done sub MOA with this method at 100 yards.

Welcome, and enjoy the ride. This will be fun! BTW, I like the marker on the meplat. If we could do the same on the bottom with a glow in the dark PC you may get a nice cold tracer effect. I ordered some glow PC, but the fella on ebay flaked on me, and I never got my product.

I have not tried ASBBDT, so, I will limit my comments.
For ES; one driving reason, (I already owned a HF ES gun) and some assisting suppositions . ( I'm in tampa, monsoon season, (humidity) and, I have tipped over, and placed back up right, a couple boolits. The blotches that caused by touching them gave me the heebiejeebie. (Can't imagine touching each and every one before baking) lastly, shaking 555gr boolits in a tub.......
But, clearly it can work very well
I do not yet have an 'accurate' load with the 500, the 45 seems to love the boogered up boolits dropping out of the lee mold, But the millet red dot is tough to pick a "spot" to aim to. some day I will put a decent scope on it, (busted a Tasco 15 years ago) I think if I sorted the boolits before loaading, and put it in a hard rest, the 17gr load of 4227 would be under 3", mebbe close to 2.

the bfr hasn't shown me that love yet, but, only had it for a few months

Poppers, i take it, reccomends against the traditional .001 over bore size?

Thanks for the input!

[xacex]

do you have any examples of this you could post ?? seems it should be the other way around, thinner on the ES and thicker on the ASBBDT. Not saying its not true, but if you had some examples you can post as I have been looking for some

thanks
charlie

Look through this thread. MikeHuges, as well as my groups are posted, and there are other examples. The most accurate loads appear to be ASBBDT. The thickness is my own observation, and measurements with a micrometer. Spaying you can continue to build powder beyond what you can get with dry tumbling in my experience. Also, you can spay heavier on on side vs the other as I have also measured with a micrometer. Baking has an effect as well and for the sake of an even coat it is best to coat with the boolit upright vs laying down, but I haven't got to a point where it would make a difference for me yet.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...fps-or-greater

[meicalnissyen]

Also, you can spay heavier on on side vs the other as I have also measured with a micrometer. Baking has an effect as well and for the sake of an even coat it is best to coat with the boolit upright
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...fps-or-greater

had not spent much time thinking about the inherent randomness of the thickness of the shake tecnique

[xacex]

Most of the randomness does even out when baking creating a quite even coat. Also, the amount of powder sticking seems to meet a limitation with tumbling vs spraying with an electrostatic charge. The method works quite well, and I prefer it for non hollow point molds, or rifle boolits where the thickness of coat can make a difference in whether or not the boolit will fit in the throat.

[meicalnissyen]

Most of the randomness does even out when baking creating a quite even coat. Also, the amount of powder sticking seems to meet a limitation with tumbling vs spraying with an electrostatic charge. T

actually, what I'd meant by "inherenet randomness" was inherent eveness, because of the random application of the shaking

yeah, the spray can really lay it on, and the humidity I fear would scotch ASBBDT, also sends clumps up the gun now and then, and it tends to hit the top more than the base, of any object being spayed since the surface (foil) tends to suck the powder out of the stream.

I need to get a 5 hour tip enhancer, for a tighter, lighter spray
and go online for some cheep #4 washers to rest my boolits nose down to get the thicker spray on the lands,
and develop a cheep rotating platter so I can hit the array from all sides, while minimizing the tip overs and forgo the recovery booth thing
this may snug groups up a bit

I need more clear powder.............

[xacex]

actually, what I'd meant by "inherenet randomness" was inherent eveness

I got what you were saying..

[popper]

Popper, i take it, reccomends against the traditional .001 over bore size?

Not me! Haven't slugged a barrel in a couple years, just find what it likes. Others have talked about casting bore size then coating & seem to get good results. I have not done much testing in this area.
I will restate - one grain of LIGHT WEIGHT PC spread over the boolit cannot really cause imbalance. Now if lumps move the HEAVY Pb underneath in a spot, could cause imbalance. You have to cast weight < 1% for the boolit to NOT cause errors. IMHO, thick coating could cause weaker drive area & stripping. PC is not as strong as Pb.
I did have to size 308ME to 308 to get it to chamber, my guns are all sized same as when I used reg. lube.

[meicalnissyen]

Now if lumps move the HEAVY Pb underneath in a spot, could cause imbalance. .

Thats a very good point

whats your opinion of this scenario:
yo go base down on NSRW, filick em off the foil with little flag burrs adhering to the boolit, size with a lee push thru, and have a bit of tag on one side still attached after sizing.

A Will the tag affect aero?

B Will the tag survive the hot ride down the barrel?