Coke bottling .45acp question

[BT8850]

Hello all, I'm going to put it out front, I'm pretty green to reloading and casting. So far have only cast/loaded about 1600rnds combined of .40sw 9mm 10mm using Lee Dies and molds, and the Rock Chucker kit.

Now that that's out of the way, through some trades/deals with members here I've gotten set up to load .45acp (thanks Bullfrog and 300blk) using an RCBS die set and these .452 230 lrn boolits. If you look at the picture you'll notice small 'ridges' in the cases. They chamber fine in the gun i'll be using (Kimber Custom II) My question is what is causing this? Am I doing something wrong? The two cases on the far left are as they come out of the expander die, most are not this severe, these were same headstamp, I figure maybe it was just the brass. I set the expander die just low enough to open the mouth just enough to seat these bullets with out shaving material.

I set my size die as recommended (raise arm, screw die down to shell holder, lower arm, tighten additional 1/4turn, lock), and seat and crimp in separate steps. The OAL is 1.250 +/- .002, case mouth runs .469-.4705 od, web/base it around .475.

I've seen this "coke bottle effect" on a handful of 9mm cases I've reloaded and they've shot great so I didn't think much of it. I've not yet fired any of these rounds but i'm guessing they will also shoot just fine. Maybe this is just an asthetics thing and i'm being picky but I like to my reloads to look like factory loaded ammo. Just curious if anyone can tell me something i'm doing wrong here. Thanks in advance for any insight!

Attachment 113604

[Shiloh]

Your sizing die is doing it's job. The boolit is pooching out the case when seated. Not an issue. This has happens for me with
9mm particularly. Some brass is thicker than other brass and can lead to this. Experiment by adjusting the die. Take notes so measurements are recorded.

Shiloh

[Jupiter7]

Completely normal. More pronounced with certain bullets and can change from one brass manufacturer to the next.

[mdi]

Yep, fellers above are correct. The amount of "pooching" will vary with bullet diameter and case wall thickness. I'd suggest you shoot 'em and NOT use a Lee factory crimp die (as some may suggest).

[BT8850]

Thanks for the quick responses gentlemen, I'm glad this is a common thing and others have experienced this. I'm planning on trying them out tonight or sometime tomorrow, i'll let you all know how it works out. mdi, why do recommend not using the FCD? There are lots of opinions out there about them and i'm always looking to hear new ones, hit me with it!

[wallenba]

Normal, unless the bulge appears only on one side. If that's the case, an 'M' die is in your future. A bulge on one side only is caused by uneven seating when the boolit starts into the case crooked.

[BT8850]

I see, thanks for the insight! The bulge/ridge is occuring on the entire circumfrence of the case so i'm going to assume they are seating squarely. Forgive me if this is dumb question but what do you mean by an 'M' die? Thanks!

[Echo]

Lyman makes a die series called the 'M' die. M dies have spuds inside to expand the case, and also give a minute added expansion to the neck for easier boolit seating, something most rifle dies don't do. Not really a flare, although I've seen a couple of M dies that actually flare, rather than make it a step function. Just enough so that you don't shave the boolit as you seat it.

[prs]

The pooching out of the brass is a good thing. Lead boolits tend to be fatter than those unmentionables and lead boolits are way softer. If the brass does not "give", the lead boolit will. If the lead boolit is sized down by the brass, that is NOT a good thing.

prs

[JWT]

It looks like the case on the left wasn't fully in the shell holder when you cycled the press. The mouth of the case is a bit crushed so you may not want to use it as is. Slow down, this usually happens to me when I'm going too fast.

[nicholst55]

You should see .357 ammo sized in my Lyman carbide die - it truly looks like a coke bottle - much, much more so than yours! It doesn't seem to have hurt a thing ever since I bought them about 30 years ago, though, so I'm not going to change anything. Unfortunately I don't have any ammo handy to photograph.

[Shiloh]

http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/d...idge=26&die=52

I just use these for rifle cases. Never saw the need for straight wall pistol rounds. Others may chime in on this.

Shiloh

[Shiloh]

Thanks for the quick responses gentlemen, I'm glad this is a common thing and others have experienced this. I'm planning on trying them out tonight or sometime tomorrow, i'll let you all know how it works out. mdi, why do recommend not using the FCD? There are lots of opinions out there about them and i'm always looking to hear new ones, hit me with it!

Let us know if there are issues. I don't see you having any at all. Shoot 'em.

Shiloh

[mdi]

Well, you'll get plenty of opinions on the Lee FCD. I'm not a Lee hater, but the FCD is unnecessary. The FCD is a post seating sizing die. Properly adjusted dies and components of the proper size make the FCD a waste of time, effort, and sometimes will "ruin" a round ("over sizing"). I have reloaded 45 ACP ammo for 12 years and when I have problems with rounds chambering, I'll find out why and fix it, usually with die adjustments. It also is possible for a Lee FCD to size cast bullets down to too small (that's why my FCD now resides in a landfill somewhere in So. Oregon). And I think of those bizillion of rounds reloaded successfully without the aid of an FCD. A quick search will lead you to this hotly debated topic...

jes my thoughts.

[bangerjim]

And now for another viewpoint:

I had numerous problems with 2 1911 45 ACP's not chambering properly due to the case expansion you are seeing. Nothing would go in!!!!!! After messing around with every option I could come up with, I followed several suggestions and now size to .451 and use a Lee factory crimp. ALL problems solved! Every weight and shape of the many 45's I cast and PC now load, chamber and shoot perfectly.

That is my view from this end. Your mileage may vary.

The above info applies to MY equipment, not yours, so you will have to determine what works best for YOUR gun barrels. All guns are different.

Good luck.

bangerjim

[gray wolf]

The case on the left is totally messed up, WHY? Still no explanations as to why it happened.
Looks like it was not sized all the way down, and the case mouth looks chewed up.

[BT8850]

Wow, thank you all for replying and for the insight, i'm glad that for the most part it seems this is common. I apologize for the delay in response, busy weekend. JWT, you are probably right, the shell holder is a little tight to get the casings into sometimes and I probably didn't get these in all the way in my haste. gray wolf, those two cases were sized the same as the rest of them, the photo shows them after sizing and right after they came out of the expander die. They went into my scrap bin I just wanted to show that they got fudged up during expanding. As JWT mentioned, it's more than likely I didn't have the cases into the shell holder all the way and they got expanded off center.

mdi, thanks for the input on the FCD, like I said, I like to hear everyones opinon! Shiloh, thanks for the link and info on the 'm' die, while i'd agree I don't think I need one in this case, it's nice to know they exsist should the need arise.

bangerjim, i'm glad to hear sizing down a hair fixed your problems for you. I haven't yet slugged the Kimber barrel (it's my brothers pistol) but i'd imagine a .451 would still be plenty big enough for it. Thanks for the heads up! When I do get into casting and powder coating for .45, i'll definitely keep that in mind.

That all said, I DID have some problems at the range this weekend. I was unable to make it through a 5 round string with out the gun refusing to go all the way into battery, it typically went like this - insert loaded mag, slide open - close slide using the release - fire 1 or 2 rounds and next round would hang up just back from battery. I fired the rounds from two different magazines and had same problems with both and also fired factory winchester white box from both as sort of a control (functions 100% with factory ammo in both mags). What I did notice after one string was that when I removed the empty magazine there was a small half moon shaped sliver of lead laying there. If you look at the original picture you'll notice that the boolits have a small ledge or shelf on them just above the case mouth. I'm thinking this little 'shelf' might be keeping it from going completely to battery? When I look at one of the rounds that wouldn't chamber completely I do notice that that 'shelf' is very shiny, leading me to believe these boolits may need to be seated even deeper than 1.250 to function properly. It's dissapointing because I checked the chamber fit several times while loading only to get to the range and have this happen. Anyway, thoughts? Opinions? Suggestions?? Here are some target photos, I was fairly happy with the performance. Everything was shot standing at 10 yards, sorry about all the tape, the targets are well used. The first photo is of the load with longshot, the second is with using Power Pistol, the third is the 'control' group I shot with the winchester ammo (the only shots I didn't have to stop and fool around with the gun in between!!)

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Attachment 113871

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[OuchHot!]

I have a match pistol that requires that I seat a little deeper due to its shorter/tighter throat. I reset my progressive to accommodate and it doesn't seem to be a problem for the other 1911's. The coke-bottle thing was no where near as bad in the old days when there were no carbide sizer dies. Those (ya gotta lube 'em) dies accommodated the taper of case and brass better. The carbide rings cannot do that so they shoot for a unhappy medium that happens to work but looks ugly. Redding makes some insanely expensive carbide sizers with two rings; one for the mouth and one for the base.

[62chevy]

Yes make up at least 3 dummy round to cycle through your gun. Doing so will make it easy to make adjustments on the fly at you loading bench.

[bruce381]

Well, you'll get plenty of opinions on the Lee FCD. I'm not a Lee hater, but the FCD is unnecessary. The FCD is a post seating sizing die. Properly adjusted dies and components of the proper size make the FCD a waste of time, effort, and sometimes will "ruin" a round ("over sizing"). I have reloaded 45 ACP ammo for 12 years and when I have problems with rounds chambering, I'll find out why and fix it, usually with die adjustments. It also is possible for a Lee FCD to size cast bullets down to too small (that's why my FCD now resides in a landfill somewhere in So. Oregon). And I think of those bizillion of rounds reloaded successfully without the aid of an FCD. A quick search will lead you to this hotly debated topic...

jes my thoughts.

+1 100% agree