So explain this little bit of illogic on deer Shooing

[TCLouis]

357 Mag load with 158 grain boolit at 1200 fps is good for 50-75 yard shot.

30 caliber 150-173 grain flat point boolit at 1500- 1700 is not recommended by many here.

Seems to defy logic to me.

[Good Cheer]

All I know is bigger is better until it isn't.

[NSB]

TC, to be honest, I've never heard anyone say that. I don't think it's a common belief. Thinking about it though, bullet alloy could make a difference? I for one don't see any reason why you couldn't shoot and kill a deer with a 30 cal at that distance. I think I'd want a good flat point on the bullet though.

[Bohica793]

The .357 round is a .357-.359 diameter projectile versus the 30 cal which is a .308-.311 diameter. Bigger hole is the only thing that makes sense to me.

[357maximum]

357 Mag load with 158 grain boolit at 1200 fps is good for 50-75 yard shot.

30 caliber 150-173 grain flat point boolit at 1500- 1700 is not recommended by many.

Seems to defy logic to me.

Not only does it defy logic it is just plain untrue in my experience, but then I only shoot one deer per boolit and I can shoot. I have proven to myself waaaaaay to many times that a deer can only be killed once and there is not many degrees of dead. A deer can be turned into venison alot of ways and it really does not take much to accomplish this task....deer are fragile beings just like we are,deer have no mythical strengths and are definately not magically coated in kevlar as they breech the womb. Deer are proably actually easier to kill than we are as we are basically shooting them armpit to armpit...there is alot of needed "stuff" between the "armpits". In the right hands a 357 is deadly quite a ways father than 75 yards and a 30 caliber boolit at 1500 is just if NOT more effective at them ranges. Not sure where you got your info, but it is news to me.

[Digital Dan]

357 Mag load with 158 grain boolit at 1200 fps is good for 50-75 yard shot.

30 caliber 150-173 grain flat point boolit at 1500- 1700 is not recommended by many.

Seems to defy logic to me.

a word comes to mind: Horsefeathers

[DougGuy]

Going after a deer with a handgun that starts with a 3 is illogical. Start with a 4 at least!

[Larry Gibson]

Doesn't take much to kill a deer. How fast you want to kill it (given the same shot; the faster the bullet, the greater the would cavity with sufficient penetration the quicker incapacitation and death come). The 30-30 rifle given it's greater velocity generally will kill quicker. The rifle also because of its generally better accuracy and higher velocity extend the effective range.

I think a 1500- 1700 fps load in the 30-30 is more often not recommended simply because it does not utilize the cartridge or the rifle's capability. Be like hunting with 38 SPLs in the 357, very under loaded for the capability.

Larry Gibson

[Outpost75]

The .32-40 Winchester blackpowder load fired a 160-grain flatnosed bullet at about 1300fps and was considered an adequate deer load in its day. In the .30-30 a similar load with flatnosed bullet will do the job if well placed and range is reasonable. Using blackpowder loads the .44-40 with 200-grain bullet at about 1200 fps was deemed to be a better killer than the .32-40.

Both cartridges are deemed underpowered by modern thinking, but the deer have not evolved into armor plated beasts. It is the hunter who has evolved into an overweight, out of shape tenderfoot who exercises poor fieldcraft and seeks a wondergun to make up for his lack of skill.

The deer also react to increased hunting pressure and are more wary, making those clean shots at sensible range less frequent.

[quilbilly]

This is the reason I started doing my own terminal ballistics tests at 40 yards using soaked, compressed phone books. Conventional wisdom doesn't cut it and is often amusing. Conventional wisdom says that a 45 cal 128 gr patched round with a muzzle velocity of 1800 fps going barely 1100 fps at 100 yards is completely unsuitable for deer at 100 yards. Not according to my freezer after hunting season. One interesting result from a recent test was a 173 gr 357 Keith SWC boolit at 1400 fps MV versus a 30 cal 162 gr boolit with a small flat point at 1550 fps MV. The Keith 357 SWC penetrated 9-1/2 inches while the 30 cal penetrated 17-1/2 inches with a much larger vicious wound channel yet I think both are just fine on deer but, with no experience on hogs, I would rather have the 30 for feral hogs.

[TCLouis]

quilbilly
Years ago I was picking up a 45 caliber barrel from Don Eades' shop and lamented that I wished the 45 caliber round ball could be used for deer hunting, but planned to use it mostly for target shooting.

His short but succinct answer stuck with me . . . Don said, "Well, I have been using a 45 caliber round ball for 18 years, and dead is dead."

[NVScouter]

357 Mag load with 158 grain boolit at 1200 fps is good for 50-75 yard shot.

30 caliber 150-173 grain flat point boolit at 1500- 1700 is not recommended by many here.

Seems to defy logic to me.

Reverse that and you have my opinion.

[shooterbob]

Was probably stated due to leading at higher velocities. Loaded without gc or something and had a bad experience maybe?

[NVScouter]

The sectional density of a .30 cal 170g is far superior to a 158g .358 bullets. If you punch a hole in both lungs the deer will die within 50y. Add a harder rifle alloy and the extra 500fps and you have supperior killing power.


A 357 handgun is marginal hunting weapon that takes good boolits and excellent shots. The only thing with either is placement and range limitations of the hunter.

[micky_blue]

357 Mag load with 158 grain boolit at 1200 fps is good for 50-75 yard shot.

30 caliber 150-173 grain flat point boolit at 1500- 1700 is not recommended by many here.

Seems to defy logic to me.

Wasn't the Hanson buck killed with a 32-20?

[nanuk]

Wasn't the Hanson buck killed with a 32-20?

Nope.....

[nagantguy]

I agree with most here either one of the loads stated by the op are deadly if put in the pump House. Deer are not that hard to kill but can be hard to put down on the spot if already leary and aware at the shot. Told this before here two biggest wild hogs I've seen killed with my own eyes were both in TN and both on the same day or maybe a day apart. One hit broad side twice with 3 inch magnum 12 gauge slugs, the old Remington slugger 's and the next shot with a .22mag in a garden. Both at 30 yards or close to both heart/lung shots. The one shot with .22 mag dropped DRT! The one hit twice from slugs ran 50,yards or so right through cattle fencing and drug a section of said fence with him for most that distance then went down and did the curly shuffle for about a minute. Some ones tag line here is its all an educated guess until the trigger is pulled.

[1Shirt]

Tend to agree with Larry G on this one. Regardless, if you don't hit them in the bread basket, it is all academic!
1Shirt!

[Wolfer]

I don't have much experience with that load in a 357. However I've shot ten or better coyotes and deer with the 30 cal load. I can't recall ever shooting any of em twice. Or needing to.

I do tend to not shoot until I have a shot I can make. Where you put the little hole is all important but soft cast 30 cal at 1700 fps does not make a little hole.

[micky_blue]

Nope.....

It was the Jordan buck I was thinking of, and he used a 25/20 on it.