Loverin bullet design

[leeenfield]

I would like to know more about the design of the Loverin bullet. I do not have one to measure. All I have is pictures in my 60 year old Ideal/Lyman manual.

How does bullet diameter relate to throat, groove,bore diameter? Pictures seem to show a long straight bearing surface that is much longer than the probable throat. So is the bullet tapered so that it can fill the throat and yet fit within the barrel lands?

How deep are the grooves?

What else is there to,the design that is not readily visible to the eye?

Thanks.

[btroj]

Pretty much all grooved bearing surface with little nose. Bore ride isn't even a consideration.

Get one that fits the throat and they can handle some speed with all that bearing surface.

Don't need to lube all the grooves, often just the back few is enough.

[runfiverun]

they are generally tapered they will start at about 312 on the base band and step down to around 308 on the front one.
if your throat is shaped like that [as many a3-03's etc, and some bolt action 30-30's are]
or your throat is deep and long like many other milsurps are you want the loverign design.

[1Shirt]

Have 4or 5 of them in different cals, and they all shoot well. Agree that you don't have to fill all lube grooves, but with a red/blue or green lube, with all the grooves filled they look sort of "Kool".
1Shirt!

[Ben]

I had a nice single cav. Loverin 311466 that had a gas check shank that had always cast too small ( loose gas check fit ) .

Today, I decided that this particular mold would be a good one to plain base. The process of removal of the g/c shank went well. The bullet sizes well to .311 " dia.

When this rain stops , I'm anxious to try some of these out in my 06's and my 308 Win. rifles.

Ben

After running my Loverin 311466's through a .311 sizer die, these are the " numbers " that I have :


_______________________________



I cast about 250 of these this morning.



These IDEAL 311466 Plain base bullets are sized .311" , lubed with Ben's Red. and rolled in 45 / 45/ 10 and are sitting on wax paper drying.

[Artful]

I'm just going to say I like Loverin's designs... and post some links

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...-H-Guy-Loverin

http://www.lasc.us/brennan_2-0_moldselectiondesign.htm

http://www.mountainmolds.com/phpBB3/....php?f=3&t=242

[ShinyPartsUp]

I hope his granddaughters post again. My mother spoke of the Hurricane of '38 with awe. It remains one of the deadliest storms in US history. The stories behind the mold are fascinating. I love to picture Guy sitting at a kitchen table molding bullets for the war effort. It was a strange and different time to modern ears.

[Larry Gibson]

I use Loverin designed cast bullets in; .224s (2), 6.5s (2), 7mm, .30 & .31 (3) and 8mm (2). I would like to find a 257463 for my 25-20 also. The main design advantages are they come in varying lengths so they can fit most case neck and throats, they have shallower multiple lube grooves (depth varies with caliber), long bearing surfaces of 62 - 70% and they have shorter noses. Those are all attributes for best accuracy with cast bullets in CF rifle cartridges.

To keep the GC inside the case neck with the longer heavier for caliber Loverin cast bullets you can easily size the forward drive bands to fit into the bore past the leade. That basically alters them to a bore riding nose design though. Best to select the Loverin design so the bearing surface matches the case neck (top of GC at neck shoulder junction) and front band just at the leade. Loverins were designed mostly for the longer necked family of cartridges like the '06/30-30 or for chambers with long free bores like most milsurps.

With a reasonably hard alloy in the 14 - 16 BHN range you can just lube 2-3 of the lube grooves if velocities are kept under 1900 fps or so and the lube is up to it. For HV cast bullet loads (the Loverin design excels here) I prefer to lube all the grooves as the lube in the grooves is not compressible (hydraulics you know) and gives structural support to the bullet during acceleration preventing unwanted obturation, set back or sloughing of the bullet. Truth is I even lube all the grooves for even lower velocity use. The lube in the multiple grooves along the entire bearing surface is thought to better provide a continual layer of lube for the bullet to "glide" upon. The smaller multiple drive bands are also less susceptible to damage from the rifling (as aptly demonstrated by goodsteel on another thread).

So far for HV (upwards of 2600+ fps) accuracy in .224 and .30 calibers the Loverin design has proven to be the best so far.

Larry Gibson

[tward]

I have a lyman 311403 apparently this is a Pope design for the 30-40 Krag. Apparently was designed to seat in the throat for 200 yd target work. I mention this because I always thought this was a Loverin design. It casts about .315 at the base and each successive driving band is slightly smaller. Tim

[DR Owl Creek]

...

To keep the GC inside the case neck with the longer heavier for caliber Loverin cast bullets you can easily size the forward drive bands to fit into the bore past the leade. That basically alters them to a bore riding nose design though...

With a reasonably hard alloy in the 14 - 16 BHN range you can just lube 2-3 of the lube grooves if velocities are kept under 1900 fps or so and the lube is up to it. For HV cast bullet loads (the Loverin design excels here) I prefer to lube all the grooves as the lube in the grooves is not compressible (hydraulics you know) and gives structural support to the bullet during acceleration preventing unwanted obturation, set back or sloughing of the bullet. Truth is I even lube all the grooves for even lower velocity use. The lube in the multiple grooves along the entire bearing surface is thought to better provide a continual layer of lube for the bullet to "glide" upon. The smaller multiple drive bands are also less susceptible to damage from the rifling (as aptly demonstrated by goodsteel on another thread).

So far for HV (upwards of 2600+ fps) accuracy in .224 and .30 calibers the Loverin design has proven to be the best so far.

Larry Gibson

Larry,

What do you use to size the noses? A push through sizer? How well does it work with a base first sizer, and do you have to rig-up some kind of stop to keep the bullets from going too far into the sizing die?

Thanks

Dave

[Larry Gibson]

I modified a H&I (started life as a .459), which was easy with a lathe, to take Redding, Hornady or Wilson NS bushings. Noses and drive bands are easily sized down. How many thou at a time depends on the alloy hardness. I use a nose punch for a SWC with a meplat that fits or is slightly larger than the GC/base. The bullets are GC'd, sized and lubed normally before sizing the nose or drive bands.

Larry Gibson

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[DR Owl Creek]

I modified a H&I (started life as a .459), which was easy with a lathe, to take Redding, Hornady or Wilson NS bushings. Noses and drive bands are easily sized down. How many thou at a time depends on the alloy hardness. I use a nose punch for a SWC with a meplat that fits or is slightly larger than the GC/base. The bullets are GC'd, sized and lubed normally before sizing the nose or drive bands.

Larry Gibson

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Cool! Thanks a lot!

I don't think I would trust my skills with a lathe that much, but I'd bet Buckshot could help me out.

Dave

[rintinglen]

I have 7 or 8 Louverin molds, 4 cavity NOE 311-465 and 311-466, plus Lyman 1 cavity 311-465, a Lyman 2 cav 311-465, a lyman 311-366 2 cav, a 311-407 NOE, a 316-475 2 cavity, a 258-463, and I think one more, an 8 mm 323-470. I swear by them. They are the best for high speed loading. The 125 grain 311-465 is a particular favorite of mine, working in everything from the 30 carbine, up to the 30-06, and including the 32-20, 30-30,-30-40 and .308. They are excellent.

[Donor8x56r]

I purchased Lyman 311407 some time ago and I cant get my head around measurements of that boolit.

Front half (nose) measures even .300 and back end has even .313.

Is this boolit meant for worn out 30-06/308 calibers?

I tried to load it into Israeli K98 (VZ 24 receiver with IDF made 308 barrel) but I have to size it down to .311 to close bolt.

Too bad entire boolit isn't .313-I could use it in few calibers.

[Larry Gibson]

The 311407 is supposed to have the front bands smaller than the rear bands so it will enter up into the bore with the GC at the base of the neck. This is similar to what has evolved into the bore riding nose. It is also the reason the 311466 is most often the preferred Loverin .30 cal bullet for the long necked cartridges as it fits the case neck to throat leade almost perfectly if not perfectly.

Your 311407 was probably cut with a cherry made to original specs when Lyman #1 alloy (had Cu in it) was prevalent. With that alloy the lower bands would be .311- .312. As the nominal diameter is .311xxx it is meant to be sized to .311. You might just try it in a couple .31 cals if their groove diameter isn't over .312 - .313. It may just shoot very well. I have an older 311466 that drops .313+ with #2 alloy and it is excellent in my 7.65 Argies and Ross M10 .303. It drops at .311 - .312 with my Cu alloy.

Larry Gibson

[Donor8x56r]

Thank you Larry.

I will keep this mold and see if I can use it in 2 groove LE nr4.