Single Shot Smoothbores Flint or Cap

[northmn]

One of the muzzle loaders that I have had the most fun with and one that was probably used more than we realize by the forefathers was the fowler, smooth rifle, or muskets. The local Anishinabe (Ojibwe) traded 20 beaver pelts for the 24 ga (58 cal) Northwest Trade Gun. I know of few people that lived off the land more than the Native American who seemed to like these weapons. Many of the original found such as one pulled out of the Rainy River, have been found loaded with shot. The shot of the time was commonly swan shot, which was about BB sized and made by pouring lead through a screen or a hole and letting it fall into water. If you think on it BB shot will work for about anything from ducks to deer (if you head shoot the deer up close). No one wasted ammo wing shooting when you could let ducks or geese group up and get more than one with one shot.
I have made several flintlock smoothbores, some out of old modern barrels picked up here and there. My last one was a nice one in 12 gauge with a cherry wood stock that I sold in a moment of weakness and haven't replaced. I even had a Brown Bess once. I went to BP shoot and blasted a couple of gongs with a .715 round ball loaded with about 100 grains of 2f with the Bess. The other people were making them swing with the rifles. Some using 50 maxis. The first gong wrapped around the cross piece three times (they were homemade welded on chains) The second pulled out of the ground and layed flat. I quit shooting them due to the lack of appreciation from those hosting the shoot. Competition required that one did use rear sights as the originals were not made with sights. A ridiculous rule as rudimentary sights were commonly found added on many originals. The Allen Town Bethlehem long rifles were found to be smooth rifles, some with double set triggers. I read an article about an ivory hunter that used a ten gauge smooth rifle. These were guns built like rifles with no rifling. The ivory hunter claimed that the smooth bore was easier to clean and plenty adequate for accuracy. I have found in my smooth bores that loading a card wad under the patched ball seems to increase the "punch" and accuracy. You can wing shoot with these flintlocks, but I never felt a lot of guilt swating with them, or saturating a tree top to get a grey squirrel hidden in the leaves. A 20 gauge or larger also works well for deer. Just thtought I would mention them as I haven't seen much written about them on this thread and they are alot of fun.

Northmn

[waksupi]

Smoothbores are very popular around here, and gaining steam all the time. There are several of us that can keep up with, and ahead of many of the rifle shooters. My favorite is my old NW gun, that I built from one of Curly's kits about 30 years ago. I did make a 28 bore this past year for target shooting, and it is a sweetie to shoot.
If I could only have one ML, it would definitely be a flint smoothbore. If you really need to eat, this is the gun that will put meat on the spit.

[Charley]

I built a 20 bore fowler from Jim Chambers. Only taken small game with it so far, but it is planty accurate out to 50 yards or so for whitetails. I do get a lot of second looks when dove shooting with it, though.

[northmn]

Nice looking Trade Gun. You have either been using it or have done a heck of a job putting on a "patina". Wish I had the equipment to send pictures. What inspired this little blurb is a single shot percussion half stock original I picked up at an auction that was called a "wall hanger" The barrel is a simple octagon to round 16 ga about 32 inches long. The trim reminds me of the appalacian styles all pointed at the end. The Walnut stock was in two pieces and the underpinning lug is gone. Very unusual wooden trigger guard. Thought I could use the parts as it had a good back action lock and could not get either the lock or the barrel for the price I got the gun. More I looked at it the more I decided to refurbish it and make a shooter out it. As the metal is all solid, the barrel in really good shape. It is a nice looking shotgun, just nothing fancy. Should be a good ruffed grouse gun, may even try it on a pheasant next year. Got other deer guns. Got all the parts but a barrel to make a flint lock fowler. Was going to use up the parts but have plenty of rifles and got an itch that needs scratching to build another fowler or musket.

Northmn

[waksupi]

It's neat that you found one of the originals with the wooden trigger guards. Does it look to be original to the rest of the firearm? I've only seen a couple of these, and suspect they may be apple wood, but sure wouldn't want to put a bet on it.

The patina on the trade gun is honest use. It's seen a lot of backcountry and river trips. Shot a deer with it this past season. It had fooled Curly, and current NSW owner Matt Denison. Both thought it was an original Barnett.

[LIMPINGJ]

Seeing waksupi's pics and others talk of their own results building a smoothbore have increased my interest in trying to build one for myself. I have tinkered with simple gun repair and alterations for abour 40 years but have never attempted to build a muzzle loader. Who would you recomend getting your parts from and would you go for a kit or just buy parts as you needed them in the building process? Also would there be any books I need to digest before I start a build? I just don't want to turn several hundred dollars of parts into a hundred dollar gun. Thanks in advance for any advice and any additional pics of your work.
LIMPINGJ

[waksupi]

I would recommend either http://northstarwest.com/, or http://www.trackofthewolf.com/(S(xct...k))/index.aspx.

Both have kits that should suit you. The NW tradegun is probably the simplest ml to build. For all around use, I would highly recommend a 20 bore size. We have used just about all the available guage sizes, and this seems to be the best all around.

I really can't recommend a ml building book, as I have never used one!

[Boz330]

I think Track says there Trade gun is the easiest to build of their kits. I've had a hankering to get one for a long time but my plate runneth over with project guns. There is a guy at Friendship every year with almost done kits and complete guns that are very nice looking. The kits are finished to the point that you could take them right as is and shoot them. Needs only sanding and metal and wood finishing. Don't even have time for that though.

Bob

[square butte]

If you guys have not already found this site, try - american longrifles.com - It's a great site for builders, shooters and collectors of flintlocks. I spend about as much time there as I do here.

[gregg]

I would recommend either http://northstarwest.com/, or http://www.trackofthewolf.com/(S(xct...k))/index.aspx.

Both have kits that should suit you. The NW tradegun is probably the simplest ml to build. For all around use, I would highly recommend a 20 bore size. We have used just about all the available guage sizes, and this seems to be the best all around.

I really can't recommend a ml building book, as I have never used one!

Was not 28 ga the standard back in the day? That would be a 58 cal????
20 ga 62 cal???? I have all but the barrel and butt plate. I should get after it.

[northmn]

Gregg. The "standard" NW Trade gun gauge was 24 a 28 is about a 54. As to you choice of gauge, I guess it depends on what you hunt the most and how you hunt it. As I mentioned earlier, most of our forefathers whether native or immigrant did not use shot for wing shooting. A trade gun can be used for flying birds and it is surprising how well some did on clay pigeons at matches I used to set up. However, you are dealing with a small musket lock that is not so easy to pull back when a bird is rising and is a little slower in ignition than the finer locks on fowlers. It takes practice. At this time I am planning on building a "smooth rifle" which is a Pennsylvania styled long gun with a smooth bore barrel and sights. It will likely be a 20 gauge as I prefer the larger bore for shot.
The original shotgun I am restoring is very well made. The trigger guard bow is steel with the hand rail being a very well made and fitted piece of wood. It has to be original to the guard. It could easily be apple, it is hard to tell with the patina. Restoring these weapons can be challenging. The breech plug threads look like new, the barrel is in excellent condition and it has a good lock. The stock has some dry rot and needed doweling and epoxy for repairs but should stand up well as long as I do not use it for weekly trap shooting. The biggest challenge lies in repairing the rather ingenious methods of repair one of the former owners used to try and fix the underpinning lug. Had that person used tape it would have been easier. I have to make a thimble with a lug on the botton like originally used as that is gone and then make the outer stock inlays for the wedge. All part of the fun.

Northmn

[LIMPINGJ]

After looking at some of the smoothbore kits on the sites waksupi and others sugested I think I have an idea of what looks appeal to me. Just another couple questions to satisify my interest in what other like to shoot and why. First question is there seems to be a lot of interest in trade guns, since these were traded to the native population why the interest from all the white males? Were the trade guns used by the european traders also and not just much writen about it? What I have been reading on the web is mostly accounts of native americans use of the trade guns. It just seems if you were interested in shooting what your ancestors shot you would use the gun the europeans would have most likely carried unless you are interested in the native americans use. Or are these trade guns just an easy first kit to build and are what a lot of people get started with? Waksupi if you see this post could you post some pics of the 28ga. you mention you built? Thanks for all who are shareing their knowlege to help others get started.

[StrawHat]

I believe the smooth rifle, the musket and the trade gun got a lot more use than commonly percieved.

Hollywood would have us believe the Winchester 1892 won the west, several CW battles and maybe the Alamo.

They would also like us to think that every mountain man used a Hawken and every buffalo runner a Sharps.

What most people used was what was available. Coming west the first guns were probably what the carried home from the war, Besses, Charlevilles and such.

As needed, barrels were shortened and repairs were made.

When necessary, new guns were acquired. That is if a gunsmith was handy. Or a trek to the Trading Post and get whatever the sutler had in stock.

I have quite a few long rifles I built and others I traded for, but the two that get the most use are a Harpers Ferry rifle made by A. Zoli, and a Charleville musket from Navy Arms.

I guess in a time when hard money was a luxury, every gun was a "trade gun".

[Boz330]

If you think about it what better gun to have if you HAVE to put meat on the table. It would be useable with birdshot, buck, or ball, the last 2 being ideal for self defence as well, or bringing down a deer at close range. Even the rifles of the day were probably of the cheaper type for the common man.

Bob

[waksupi]

Here's some pics of the 28 bore. I admit to rushing this, to be able to shoot it last summer. I may even finish it some day!






I'm off to winter rendezvous for the day!

[45 2.1]

Ric-
You don't show us the front ends. What do you prefer for barrel length and forend treatment on these?

[northmn]

As near as I could tell when I researched long arms for building, I have to agree somewhat with LimpingJ. The NW Trade Gun was primarily a gun traded to natives for furs by the Hudson Bay Company and the American Northwest Company. At the time of the Revolution there were many committee of safety muskets for militia which were semi-military. One of my books on Pennsylvania rifles has a large number of "smooth rifles" . there were of course some military surplus weapons floating around such as Charlevilles adn the 69 musket the U.S. adopted. Fowlers were also not uncommon. Hanson, in his book on Hawken rifles mentioned that one gun commonly carried by mountain men in addition to their rifles were shotguns. If one builds muzzle-loaders you can see the shortcuts taken by the NW gun. The buttplates were sheet brass nailed on, The side plate and trigger guard were inletted, nor was the triggerguard hard to forge. On the flip side it was said that if they tried to cheapen them too much the natives quit trading with them. The locks had to be work. I personally agree with the theory that the surviving muzzle loaders do not present a good picture of the common arm as used in the earlier days as the survival rate of the fancier guns is likely far greater than that of the plainer ones. My opinion only.

Northmn

[LIMPINGJ]

Waksupi that is the look I am going to try and build. I am sure I will not be able to match your workmanship on my first build but I hope to at least do justice to the parts I purchase. If you do not mind would you share the imformation on the parts you used? Did you use a kit or purchase the parts by the piece? Also is the trim polisher steel or is it the lighting that makes brass trim look that light? Thanks for the help.

[northmn]

I am going to add my 2 cents to what Waksupi will tell you. I just looked in Track of the Wolf and you can buy that syle gun in a kit. Do yourself a favor for you first gun and do so. While I build from blanks, my first were a far cry from my later ones. You need to know certain dimensions typical of a BP weapon or they come out kind of klunky. Also that butplate on Waksupi's fowler is a B---h to inlet. It is still helpful to have experience building these kits, but at least you will have something that at the worst can be refinished later. One individual bought a Virginia rifle kit and decided to hire me to finish it as he wanted someone more experienced to build it after he looked at it. He has been quite content with it and has mentioned that several times. Waksupi has built a nice looking fowler that he finds pleasing. There are some things I would do differently but that does not make me better or more correct, just that I have a different style. Also you have to have patience and then more patience if you are going to build a nice ML. Workmanship takes time. Buy the kit.

Northmn

[waksupi]

Ok, finally got some spare time.
The barrel on the 28 is 36 inches long.
I most certainly agree there are things that could have been done diferently on this gun. As I said, I was in a hurry to use it, and didn't finish it. WAY too much wood left on it, mainly. Take off as much as you think you should, then take a lot more. I think this thing looks like a club, and a hefty one, at that!~
It is steel mounted, with sterling silver thumbpiece.
I was limited in stock design with this, as the wood came from a barn beam, built back in the 1830's in Iowa. My brother salvages them for his furniture making, and I sometimes benefit. I prefer more drop.
Barrel is from North Star West, and the lock is a Chambers.