Lee fcd for 38 special or not?

[Char-Gar]

When it comes to the Lee Factory Crimp die and cast bullets, some people swear by it and some people swear at it. If folks are prone to think Lee can do no wrong they fall into the former category and if they think Lee can pull a boo-boo from time to time they fall into the second category.

I don't own a Lee FCD, have never used a LFCD and don't intent to buy one just to find out who is right and who is wrong. I don't care about that enough to spend money for personal research into the subject.

I have loaded several hundred thousand rounds of 38 Special ammo and every round has had either a roll crimp or in some cases a taper crimp. It has worked for me for a very long time.

[Shiloh]

I use a slight taper crimp. Just enough to close the belled case mouth.

Shiloh

[mdi]

Here's an idea; try reloading without a Lee FCD. If you have chambering problems, find out why, and correct the problem. I think of all those bazillion rounds loaded successfully prior to Lee's introduction of the FCD...

[JimA]

Wow. I'm pretty new here but can see that the Lee FCD is a very polarizing subject..

If you want to crimp separately from seating, your choices are limited. The original poster said he had a factory crimp die and wanted to know if he could use it for 38 special. He can. it's pretty simple. I use a lot of different boolits in 38 special and it's a lot easier to adjust the seating depth without a crimp and then crimp on the next station. I have been using one for years in that caliber and have never had it do anything but put a roll crimp on my cartridges. The sizing ring at the bottom will never touch your case unless it's over standard chamber size. The other option is a Redding profile crimp die which cost more and he already has the Lee die.

Auto pistol cartridges are another matter. A .452 bullet in a 45 auto will get swaged by the carbide ring upon exit. Not so for 38 special with .358 boolits.

I'm not from the camp that Lee can do no wrong, but I find some of the comments from people who only "heard on the internet" pretty amusing.

[ElDorado]

It does seem to be a hot topic. I didn't realize that.

Kryogen - since it seems that you already have one on hand, why don't you just try it and see if you like it. It seems to be a matter of personal taste, anyway.

It really makes me wonder when a touchy question is asked when 99% of us would have just tried it in the first place without asking anyone. I hope you're not doing this on purpose just to start a ruckus. I'm not accusing you, I'm just looking at the situation and wondering out loud.

[tazman]

I would never have thought a simple question about the use of a crimping die would cause an argument. I suspect the OP asked because he didn't want to screw up a bunch of ammo when a quick question and a simple answer would save him a problem. I would have asked myself if I didn't know the answer.

[ElDorado]

I wouldn't have thought it either, but it looks like everyone knows it's a hot topic except me. I don't know why a man can't relate his experiences without others' condescending remarks on his comments, especially with simple questions.

Believe it or not, there are people who start threads on the internet just because they know it will cause a controversy. How many times have we read the old 9mm vs 45 threads, or AR vs AK? Most of us are savvy to those subjects and stay away, but trolls are quick to find people's sore spot and poke at it. Helping people who are earnestly trying to learn is worthwhile, but entertaining trolls is a waste of valuable time. I'm just wondering if that's the case here. If not, my apologies to the OP and let's move on. Be aware that it happens, though.

[DLCTEX]

My 45 acp FCD does not size down .452 boolits. I may have got one that is larger than most. The only time the ring touches the cartridge is when something cause a bulge or something else has gone wrong. If I feel drag when lowering the ram, it's time to find out what is happening. 38 and 357 get a roll crimp, or just enough crimp to smooth out the flare if there is no crimp groove where I seat the boolit to. 44 mag and 480 Ruger get roll crimped in a groove. 9mm get a taper crimp with a non FCD. I seat and then crimp all cartridges.

[williamwaco]

DO NOT use the Lee FCD die on any straight wall revolver cartridge.

For more details on.38 Special seating and crimping see:

http://reloadingtips.com/how_to/crimping_revolvers.htm


.

[Steve Gold]

I have to use the FCD when loading for my contender in 38 special, it has a tight chamber and even a slight roll crimp will make a very slight bulge just below the crimp. This on this gun only will prevent the round from chambering, the barrel maker did warn me that this would be the case and he was right.

For my S&W K frame a roll crimp is fine.


Now come on guys lets all play nice

[mpmarty]

The LEE FCD in straight wall pistol calibers is an answer to a question nobody asks. It causes more problems than it could ever solve. The rifle fCD with the moving collet is a whold different situation. I have one in every rifle caliber I load and they all work as advertised.

[Bullwolf]

My 45 acp FCD does not size down .452 boolits. I may have got one that is larger than most. The only time the ring touches the cartridge is when something cause a bulge or something else has gone wrong. If I feel drag when lowering the ram, it's time to find out what is happening. 38 and 357 get a roll crimp, or just enough crimp to smooth out the flare if there is no crimp groove where I seat the boolit to. 44 mag and 480 Ruger get roll crimped in a groove. 9mm get a taper crimp with a non FCD. I seat and then crimp all cartridges.

Others have suggested before that the carbide rings in the Lee Factory Crimp Dies might not all be the same sizes, or set to exact specifications. Perhaps quality control on the FCD varies by a bit. The carbide ring in the Lee FCD I purchased for 45ACP is too small for boolits sized to .452 diameter.

Not saying you are mistaken by any means DLCTEX, but my Lee 45ACP FCD will definitely size down my cast 45 boolits from .452 to .451

A while back I tested out how the Lee FCD worked for me. For this test I used my RCBS 45ACP 4 piece die set known to work, and assemble reliable ammunition. I added the Lee 45ACP carbide FCD as a final step. The Lee die was backed off to the point where it was not applying any crimp.

You could feel the carbide ring in the Lee FCD contact all the cases with a finished loaded round that had been previously sized, loaded, and taper crimped to .470 and already fit/passed in a go/no go gauge and passes a plunk test.

Using a kinetic bullet puller, I pulled the loaded cartridges assembled with the FCD and a .452 cast Linotype boolit. After measuring a pulled boolit you could see that the Lee FCD had re-sized the .452 boolit down to .451 diameter.

Here's a picture of it measured with a micrometer, and photographed alongside digital calipers for the vernier impaired.






Using or not using the FCD is always going to be a controversial subject, but when I hear more and more folks who know what they are doing say its working for me... I start to thinking the Lee pistol Factory Crimp Die carbide rings might not all be the same sizes, or perhaps quite a few have slipped past quality control that were too tight. (like my 45ACP FCD is) The pistol FCD sounds good on paper as technically all your ammo should feed if it's on the smaller side of things rather than the larger side of things. For a cast boolit shooter though, after going through all the hassle to get boolits the right size for maximum accuracy and barrel fit, correct case bell/expansion so they aren't sized down during seating and don't lead - then adding the FCD die negates all that. The Lee FCD = bad handgun Mojo for me with cast.

The FCD wouldn't be a bad thing if I was going to load, and shoot only jacketed ammunition. However my 1911's at least prefer .452 and not .451 cast lead boolits.

I see the Lee FCD as a fix for a problem in my loading procedure that does not exist, so I'm against using it. I gauge all my hand loaded ammunition before use. If they do not pass for some reason, I go back and correctly set up my dies until they do rather than using the FCD as a band-aid during my reloading process for dies that are set up incorrectly.

Since I am already sizing my brass initially, I don't really see any benefit to sizing my cases two times. Having the FCD swaging down my boolits so they are undersize is even worse.

If you made some large quantity mistake, and wanted to shoot it up rather than pulling it down this could be a handy die to have in your reloading tool box. It could be a useful item in some situations, for example use as a bulge buster. Unfortunately, it can also readily cause problems in and of itself when used with over sized cast boolits.

If the Lee pistol FCD works well for others, then I'm be happy for them. If you purchase another one, and suddenly start having problems with undersized boolits, I know exactly where I would start looking first.



- Bullwolf

[JimA]

I really wish Lee would sell a roll crimp die without the carbide ring, like they do the taper crimp die. It would be cheaper and this topic would go away. Because I prefer to crimp separately from seating I use the FC Dies that work for me (roll crimp revolver cases) and never actually need or use the carbide ring.

[357shooter]

Just buy the seating/crimping body from Lee and use that in the fourth station to crimp. It's cheap and it works great.

[Char-Gar]

I really wish Lee would sell a roll crimp die without the carbide ring, like they do the taper crimp die. It would be cheaper and this topic would go away. Because I prefer to crimp separately from seating I use the FC Dies that work for me (roll crimp revolver cases) and never actually need or use the carbide ring.

Lots of other folks out there making dies beside Lee. Why limit yourself to just one maker and their notions of how to make dies?

[JimA]

Lots of other folks out there making dies beside Lee. Why limit yourself to just one maker and their notions of how to make dies?

I don't. I use several brands of dies depending on what I load. I like Hornady seating dies for example and the sizing die depends on what I'm loading for. There are not a lot of makers making roll crimp stand alone dies.

[Char-Gar]

I don't. I use several brands of dies depending on what I load. I like Hornady seating dies for example and the sizing die depends on what I'm loading for. There are not a lot of makers making roll crimp stand alone dies.

Any seating die with the seating stem removed or backed off to not contact the bullet is a stand alone roll crimp die. Many available on Ebay for not much money.

[williamwaco]

I have to use the FCD when loading for my contender in 38 special, it has a tight chamber and even a slight roll crimp will make a very slight bulge just below the crimp. This on this gun only will prevent the round from chambering, the barrel maker did warn me that this would be the case and he was right.

For my S&W K frame a roll crimp is fine.


Now come on guys lets all play nice

Re-read Char-gar and Shiloh

Then Please re-read:

http://reloadingtips.com/how_to/crimping_revolvers.htm

Please note the last couple of photo's. They are MASSIVELY over crimped but there is no bulge. This is thanks to the design of the seating die and the crimp ring. If a crimp ring is two "square" or if the inside of the seating die is too large, the crimp ring can push the mouth of the case down instead of in and result in a bulge.

PS: My Thompson Contender has the largest chamber I have ever seen. It will swallow cases that none of my revolvers will accept.

PPS: Ignore those that do not "play nice."
There are enough people here who sincerely want to help you you do not need to listen to those that just want to insult you and or pick a fight.

If you are bulging the case, you are doing something wrong.
My first guess is that you are crimping too much. That will almost always bulge the case.
What kind of seating die are you using?

[Garyb]

Most everybody (including myself) seems to like the rifle, collet style FC. Why the heck doesn't Lee provide this style die for straight wall pistol? If you don't have a crimp groove this seems like a good solution. I use an M die for my cast reloads and the collet style crimp works great for closing up the case mouth.

I going to have to remove the carbide sizing ring in the pistol LFC as some have previously suggested and try that.

[mdi]

If you want a dedicated crimping die, look at Redding's Profile Crimp Die. I roll crimped all my .38/.357, .44 Spec./Mag. ammo with Lee dies until I got a turret press several years ago (I tried an FCD for my .44 Mag., but ruined a bunch of my prize .4315" cast bullets). Out of curiosity I got a Redding .38/.357 profile crimp die and have had zero problems and get a much better crimp (feels good during crimping, looks good, seems to be more consistent). Immediately got one for .44 and have used them on mebbe 6k rounds...